First time results from TF-100 - high TA...please advise & adding salt question

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Spartans95

Member
Jun 14, 2019
8
Cincinnati
We had our inground 16 x 32 22,000 gallon, saltwater vinyl liner pool installed last fall. I was getting tired of driving back and forth to the pool store for test results (30 min one way). I bought the TF-100 test kit per the recommendations of this site. I just completed the weekly test, here are my results, as you can see the TA is very high. It might be slightly lower as I wasn't sure if the tube was supposed to turn completely red or if it was supposed to appear as a drop of red when R-009 hits the tube. As a newbie to the pool world, I'm looking for recommendations and guidance. :)

FC: 7
CC: 1.5
Calcium hardness: 75 ppm
TA: 170
CYA: 75 ppm
Daily pH: 8.2
Water temp: 86

We have been using one 4 lb bag of Bioguard Mineral Springs Renewal weekly. I want to switch to Morton Salt due to cost and the reviews. I'm purchasing it this weekend, does it tell you on the bag how much to add weekly? We have a Hayward Salt & Swim 3C.

Thank you!
 
:wave: Welcome to TFP!!!

Ignore TA, last thing you need to consider worrying about. Only thing you can ignore more is the low CH since you have a vinyl pool ;)

All tests are performed where you count drops until the last drop causes no further color change, and then ignore that last drop.

Stop wasting money on anything with the Bioguard name.
Just use solar salt from any hardware store (do NOT use Clorox salt though).

You don't need to add salt weekly. You only add salt when it is needed ... hopefully based on an independent test using the Taylor K-1766
 
To add a little more:
Your pH is too high and you need to lower that with muriatic acid.
Your CC of 1.5 is concerning since it should be 0. For the FC and CC tests, count drops until the sample is clear and then that is your FC. Proceed to the CC test and count until clear and you are done. If you leave it sit, it will turn pink again and that does not matter.
 
Hold on!

I see really high pH and really high CC. Those need to be addressed.

And why do you need Salt? Is the SWG giving you error messages? Unless you lost a bunch of water -- a BUNCH -- by splashout or torrential rainfall or a huge leak, you shouldn't need to add salt weekly.

You take salt and water to make Sodium Hypochlorite (bleach) and Hydrogen gas. Them the hypochlorite breaks down while it's killing stuff and loses the oxygen atom and becomes salt again. So you shouldn't need to constantly add more. This Mineral Springs stuff was just a way to fill someone's pocket by emptying yours. Don;t add salt until you have a salt test and it says you need it.

Now what about that high CC? Does the pool spend its days under a cover? Did someone just dump some "nonchlorine shock" in the water? A bunch of kids with weak bladders? Or is the water getting sorta cloudy and smell like a public pool?

The pH is easy enough to fix. Add some acid.
 
jblizzle said:
:wave: Welcome to TFP!!!

Ignore TA, last thing you need to consider worrying about. Only thing you can ignore more is the low CH since you have a vinyl pool ;)

All tests are performed where you count drops until the last drop causes no further color change, and then ignore that last drop.

Stop wasting money on anything with the Bioguard name.
Just use solar salt from any hardware store (do NOT use Clorox salt though).

You don't need to add salt weekly. You only add salt when it is needed ... hopefully based on an independent test using the Taylor K-1766
Click to expand...
Thank you! Good to know about salt, I was under the impression we needed salt weekly. I'll buy the salt testing kit. Thank you! As for the pH test, do you mean the water in the entire cylinder needs to change to red or just the drop that's being dropped in? I just want to make sure I'm doing the test correctly.
 
Spartans95 said:
Thank you! Good to know about salt, I was under the impression we needed salt weekly. I'll buy the salt testing kit. Thank you! As for the pH test, do you mean the water in the entire cylinder needs to change to red or just the drop that's being dropped in? I just want to make sure I'm doing the test correctly.
Click to expand...
The whole sample. Put in your drops, cap it, and invert it once or twice to mix, then compare shades.
 
Richard320 said:
Hold on!

I see really high pH and really high CC. Those need to be addressed.

And why do you need Salt? Is the SWG giving you error messages? Unless you lost a bunch of water -- a BUNCH -- by splashout or torrential rainfall or a huge leak, you shouldn't need to add salt weekly.

You take salt and water to make Sodium Hypochlorite (bleach) and Hydrogen gas. Them the hypochlorite breaks down while it's killing stuff and loses the oxygen atom and becomes salt again. So you shouldn't need to constantly add more. This Mineral Springs stuff was just a way to fill someone's pocket by emptying yours. Don;t add salt until you have a salt test and it says you need it.

Now what about that high CC? Does the pool spend its days under a cover? Did someone just dump some "nonchlorine shock" in the water? A bunch of kids with weak bladders? Or is the water getting sorta cloudy and smell like a public pool?

The pH is easy enough to fix. Add some acid.
Click to expand...

The pool is always uncovered and pretty much gets full sun. I hit superchlorinate on my Hayward Salt & Swim every Monday night after backwashing. No, we haven't dumped any shock in except for the pool company when they opened the pool in the end of April. We are a family of 4, the kids are teenagers and get out to use the restroom. :) No friends yet, we're new to the area. So it's just been us in the pool. The water is crystal clear and has no strange odors at all. We haven't had any skin/eye irritation.

Here's what the pool company had me purchase on 4/26 and I added it on 4/28:
Alkalinity Plus - 2
Algae All 60 - 1 qt - 1
Pool Magic Spring & Fall - 1 liter - 1
Mineral Springs Stain & Scale - 1 qt - 2
Smart shock - 2 lb bottle - 2
Mineral Springs Beginnings 27.9 lb bag - 5

Thanks!
 
jblizzle said:
To add a little more:
Your pH is too high and you need to lower that with muriatic acid.
Your CC of 1.5 is concerning since it should be 0. For the FC and CC tests, count drops until the sample is clear and then that is your FC. Proceed to the CC test and count until clear and you are done. If you leave it sit, it will turn pink again and that does not matter.
Click to expand...
Just re read this, I think since I'm new to the testing world that I messed up the CC test. The test went clear and then changed back to pink, so I remember adding more drops to get it to go clear again.
 
Spartans95 said:
The pool is always uncovered and pretty much gets full sun. I hit superchlorinate on my Hayward Salt & Swim every Monday night after backwashing. No, we haven't dumped any shock in except for the pool company when they opened the pool in the end of April. We are a family of 4, the kids are teenagers and get out to use the restroom. :) No friends yet, we're new to the area. So it's just been us in the pool. The water is crystal clear and has no strange odors at all. We haven't had any skin/eye irritation.

Here's what the pool company had me purchase on 4/26 and I added it on 4/28:
Alkalinity Plus - 2
Algae All 60 - 1 qt - 1
Pool Magic Spring & Fall - 1 liter - 1
Mineral Springs Stain & Scale - 1 qt - 2
Smart shock - 2 lb bottle - 2
Mineral Springs Beginnings 27.9 lb bag - 5

Thanks!
Click to expand...
So, googling the SDSes
Baking Soda 2 unknown quantities. Yes. just plain baking soda. You paid a premium for that packaging.
Poly 60 1qt
Some kind of enzyme that smells like molasses according to the SDS 1 liter
A mix of dry acid, boric acid, 1 qt
A mix of dichlor and borax and some mystery ingredient that is probably some aluminum salt, 2 lb
Boron salt and dry acid 27.9 lbs

So no sodium monopersulfate to account for the CC. And it's always uncovered so you can't dismiss it as buildup under the cover. So I'd say you have a CC problem.

Ahh, I see you just updated things. So maybe no CC problem

You still have a pH problem. And a wallet problem -- man, they emptied yours out! I have never used any of those chemicals in almost a decade!

pH is quite easy to fix. Plug pH, TA, acid strength, and pool volume into PoolMath Dump the dose into the return stream with the pump running. Leave the pump on for at least another fifteen minutes.
 

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Spartans95 said:
Thank you! Good to know about salt, I was under the impression we needed salt weekly. I'll buy the salt testing kit. Thank you! As for the pH test, do you mean the water in the entire cylinder needs to change to red or just the drop that's being dropped in? I just want to make sure I'm doing the test correctly.
Click to expand...
EDIT: Meant to say TA test is the one I was thinking I tested incorrectly not the pH. That was the test I kept adding drops to until I got a red color overall in the cylinder.
 
Here is a photo of what today's pH looks like. When I enter it into pool math, would you say 8.0 or 8.2?

As for TA, I redid the TA test. It's the test I was confused about with changing the water in the cylinder from green to red. I mistakenly referred to that as the pH test earlier in my post, sorry about that! I'm learning! :) So back to the TA, if the whole cylinder needs to turn red, the TA is 130 if it's when I see the drop enter the cylinder turn red then my TA is closer to 80. Which is the correct way to view that? I want to make sure I enter everything in pool math correctly to see how much acid I need to add.

As for adding acid, we have an Aqua Genie. The intake is right above where the outflow is. So could I just put it directly in the pool in the deep end?

Thank you once again everyone!

106681
 
I'd call that pH 8.1 It doesn't quite have the purplish tinge that 8.2 has, to my eyes.

The TA test means the whole cylinder. You keep adding until you get to the drop that makes no difference and subtract it. So if it goes green-green-green-green-green-pinkishbacktogreen-pink-barbie pink-barbie pink that makes 9 drops total but nine did nothing so you call it 8. That makes TA 80. Your numbers will be different but the color change will be the same.
 
Richard320 said:
I'd call that pH 8.1 It doesn't quite have the purplish tinge that 8.2 has, to my eyes.

The TA test means the whole cylinder. You keep adding until you get to the drop that makes no difference and subtract it. So if it goes green-green-green-green-green-pinkishbacktogreen-pink-barbie pink-barbie pink that makes 9 drops total but nine did nothing so you call it 8. That makes TA 80. Your numbers will be different but the color change will be the same.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for walking me through the correct way to perform the TA test! I appreciate it. And thanks too for the pH reading. :)
 
Do the best you can. It just needs to be diluted before going into the system After adding use your brush in the area if you wish to mix it in well.
 
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