First test with Taylor K2006C

[draco aqua]

Total Pool Noob here seeking guidance.

I canned the pool guy last week who was looking after my pool for over a year. It's been 8 days since he "treated" it. It took a few days to receive the Taylor test kit due to the holiday. The first thing I did after getting the results was take the floating tabs out of the pool. Pool water is clear. Pool is original to the home and built in the 1960's.

FC 8.4
CC 1.2
Ph 7.4
TA 60
CH 750
CYA 70

Questions:
1. Do I need to worry about CC being 1.2 at this point? What is the best course of action?
2. With CYA 70, can I expect a reasonable decrease just by not using the floater and chlorine tabs? I live in an area where I won't be able to drain and refill the pool due to water restrictions. I'm having to refill about 0.75" per week due to evaporative loss.
3. I'll also be gone for a little over a week in the near future. Would it be wise to go back to using chlorine tabs just to maintain chlorine levels while away? If not, what is a better solution?
4. With CH 750 is it reasonable to assume that my Chlorine levels were kept fairly high for a prolonged period of time? No CSI reading due to the fact that I can't measure water temperature yet. Any recommendations?

Thanks in advance!

 

[PoolGate]

The 1.2 CC is a bit concerning and could possibly be a nascent algae issue. Take it again in the morning and see if you still have over 1.

CH is like CYA, it doesn't leave accept for water changes. With a plaster pool that is pretty high. Are you seeing scaling? Test your fill water for CH and see what you are starting with. CH has no bearing on Chlorine.

CYA 70 is also a bit high for a chlorine (non saltwater) pool. CYA degrades naturally but it won't leave the water due to evaporation. For your trip I would say yes use the floater but your CYA is already getting on the high end and chlorine pucks will add more CYA. What are you chlorinating with now? Liquid chlorine (bleach)?

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! :wave
ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

 

[Richard320]

Welcome!

Total Pool Noob here seeking guidance.

I canned the pool guy last week who was looking after my pool for over a year. It's been 8 days since he "treated" it. It took a few days to receive the Taylor test kit due to the holiday. The first thing I did after getting the results was take the floating tabs out of the pool. Pool water is clear. Pool is original to the home and built in the 1960's.

FC 8.4
CC 1.2
Ph 7.4
TA 60
CH 750
CYA 70

Questions:
1. Do I need to worry about CC being 1.2 at this point? What is the best course of action?

Not necessarily. Your pool guy may have dumped some MPS (nonchlorine shock) into the pool at some point. Keeping FC up should eliminate the CC. Sunlight also removes it.

2. With CYA 70, can I expect a reasonable decrease just by not using the floater and chlorine tabs? I live in an area where I won't be able to drain and refill the pool due to water restrictions. I'm having to refill about 0.75" per week due to evaporative loss.

No. CYA is the STD of the pool world. Once you have it, it's there. It degrades about 3% per month, so over a long enough period of time it will drop some, but not enough to measure easily. Double check your next water bill. I'm pretty sure the worst of the water restrictions have been lifted.

3. I'll also be gone for a little over a week in the near future. Would it be wise to go back to using chlorine tabs just to maintain chlorine levels while away? If not, what is a better solution?

It's pucks or hire a neighbor kid to come slosh some bleach in every day. 'course he'll want to swim in it then.

4. With CH 750 is it reasonable to assume that my Chlorine levels were kept fairly high for a prolonged period of time? No CSI reading due to the fact that I can't measure water temperature yet. Any recommendations?

Thanks in advance!

CH has nothing to do with chlorination, unless they did the weekly "shock" with cal-hypo. Hard water is just a way of life around here. You're reaching the upper limits of what's easily managed. Over 800 CH leaves you little wiggle room regarding pH and TA. You're better off replacing some water. For what it's worth, you can use pool water on the lawn. I hesitate to use it on the vegetable garden, since I don;t know if CYA gets taken in or if it breaks down.

 

[draco aqua]

The 1.2 CC is a bit concerning and could possibly be a nascent algae issue. Take it again in the morning and see if you still have over 1.

If CC is still over 1 on the retest would you recommend I shock?


CH is like CYA, it doesn't leave accept for water changes. With a plaster pool that is pretty high. Are you seeing scaling? Test your fill water for CH and see what you are starting with. CH has no bearing on Chlorine.

Yes. I was getting some scaling on tiles. It seemed fairly stable over the past year (not getting any better or worse). I'll test the fill water and let you know.


CYA 70 is also a bit high for a chlorine (non saltwater) pool. CYA degrades naturally but it won't leave the water due to evaporation. For your trip I would say yes use the floater but your CYA is already getting on the high end and chlorine pucks will add more CYA. What are you chlorinating with now? Liquid chlorine (bleach)?

I plan to use liquid chlorine. I haven't added anything yet.

 

[IceShadow]

We don’t “shock” pools here. We do the SLAM process. You take chlorine levels up higher and then test often, adding more as needed as it’s used up. See here:

SLAM - Shock Level and Maintain

We’ve all had to deal with a green pool. Clear algae from your pool with a SLAM! Read here to use shock level and maintain to clear your pool.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[draco aqua]

Welcome!
Not necessarily. Your pool guy may have dumped some MPS (nonchlorine shock) into the pool at some point. Keeping FC up should eliminate the CC. Sunlight also removes it.

Apparently he would routinely dump stuff in without measurements before or after. So according to the Chlorine / CYA chart I'm within a good FC range of 8-10. Should I aim for being on the higher side of that range (around 10 ppm) versus SLAMming (thanks for the correction above) since my water is still clear and I don't have any algae blooms yet?

 

[Steve_in_C]

If you already meet all 3 criteria required to pass a SLAM, you would not need to SLAM. However, you do not meet one of the criteria: CC. So a short SLAM could clean up potential problems.

 

[draco aqua]

Updates, observations, and new questions as I approach my 2 month anniversary with TFP! Thanks to everyone that helped me out in those first weeks.

FC 9.5
CC 0
Ph 7.4
TA 75
CH 700
CYA 80-90

1. My subsequent CC readings were between 0.5 and 0 so I decided not to SLAM. Pool has remained clear. Not sure if I had a contaminated sample on that first reading. I'll chalk it up to user error.
2. My CYA level was higher than I thought. It's anywhere between 80-100. I did the dilution method recently and got a level of 80, so I try to shoot for the higher end of FC/CYA target range. Temperatures are currently in the mid 90's so I can't do a partial drain / fill at the moment.
3. My fill water has a CH of around 200. I guess calcium will always be a problem for me.

Questions:
1. Acid washing - I've got some stains on the steps and shallow end of the pool I've been trying to scrub out of the plaster. I haven't made much progress. Acid washing is definitely not something I'd be comfortable doing and would need to hire out. I guess the best time to do this is when I drain the pool. Can anyone give me a recommendation for a good service provider in the Los Angeles region that can acid wash my pool? Can anyone give a ballpark range for how much this service would cost in my area?

2. Vacuum to Waste - I haven't had to do this yet, but I know that when fall comes around I'm going to need to know how to do this. Can someone walk me through the process? I'll post pictures of my setup. I only see a valve for backwashing the filter. The copper piping is original to the pool and all the other pipe valves other than the backwash filter valve are frozen open. They can't be turned and I'm definitely not comfortable trying to force them.

3. Skimmer Leak - I had a slow leak from some cracks in the concrete surrounding my skimmer area. I patched it up with PC-11 epoxy and it appears to be holding. I know this is just a temporary fix. Can anyone recommend a company in the Los Angeles area that does pool / concrete repair?

Thanks!

 

[setsailsoon]

1. My subsequent CC readings were between 0.5 and 0 so I decided not to SLAM. Pool has remained clear. Not sure if I had a contaminated sample on that first reading. I'll chalk it up to user error.
2. My CYA level was higher than I thought. It's anywhere between 80-100. I did the dilution method recently and got a level of 80, so I try to shoot for the higher end of FC/CYA target range. Temperatures are currently in the mid 90's so I can't do a partial drain / fill at the moment.
3. My fill water has a CH of around 200. I guess calcium will always be a problem for me.

Draco,

Welcome and congrats on your improved techniques; you're probably way more accurate than pool stores already! 200 on CH is definitely pretty hard water for your house but not excessive for your pool. Most likely the previous service used to much calcium hypochlorite for shocking and did not pay attention to the water balance. If you have a lot of evaporation CH can also creep up so just watch it closely and drain/refill if needed. Please see this section of Pool School for our recommended ranges. Also, see this section for our initial recommended testing schedule; as you get to know your pool you can adjust as appropriate. Once you do the drain/refill you'll solve the CYA also. If you need to travel frequently I found keeping the CYA level on the low end of the recommended range allows sufficient room to use trichlor pucks for travel up to 2 weeks. You can use Pool Math to estimate impact to your CYA level. On the left upper side click on "Effects of adding" then select trichlor. Tablets weigh about 7-8 oz depending on the brand.

TFP is loaded with experts and experienced users in all areas of the country and you're doing exactly the right thing by posting your questions here. Too often people go to the pool store first then end up with even worse problems and then finally find this site. Problem with pool stores is they are conflicted since they sell chemicals and solutions that are not often needed. We have nothing to sell so you have confidence the advice here is not conflicted. I don't know the answers to your other questions but I'm sure Richard and others will chime in with them.

Good luck to you and keep up the great progress!

Chris

 

[ajw22]

Have you considered getting a SWG? Then you have the correct CYA for a SWG and no more chlorine runs and daily pool water dosing.

You can’t vacuum to waste with your slide valve backwash setup. You need an MPV valve with a WASTE setting.

 

[draco aqua]

Have you considered getting a SWG? Then you have the correct CYA for a SWG and no more chlorine runs and daily pool water dosing.

You can’t vacuum to waste with your slide valve backwash setup. You need an MPV valve with a WASTE setting.

That would be ideal! But my last pool guy said that due to the old copper piping in my pool it wouldn't be a good idea. Something about the salt water corroding the old copper pipes. Any truth to that statement?

As far as manual vacuuming during the fall, would you recommend I get a leaf canister to place in line on the hose attached to the skimmer so I don't fill up my pump basket so quickly with debris, or would I need something like a stand alone pond vacuum cleaner? I'm just thankful I haven't had to deal with an algae bloom yet.

 

[ajw22]

If you test your pool water you might be surprised by what the salt level is.

A gallon of 10% chlorine raises your FC by 5 and adds 8.2 ppm of salt to your pool. In a year you will have over 1500 ppm of salt. In 2 years your salt would be at typical SWG levels. And in 3 years, with no draining, you will have more salt than a SWG pool.

Copper corrosion comes from low pH and bad water chemistry.

 

[draco aqua]

If you test your pool water you might be surprised by what the salt level is.

A gallon of 10% chlorine raises your FC by 5 and adds 8.2 ppm of salt to your pool. In a year you will have over 1500 ppm of salt. In 2 years your salt would be at typical SWG levels. And in 3 years, with no draining, you will have more salt than a SWG pool.

Copper corrosion comes from low pH and bad water chemistry.

I’ve got 2 reagents on order to test salt then! I’ll definitely look into the SWG.

When FC is above 10, the standard response here is that pH isn’t accurate. Can someone tell me if the high chlorine shifts pH towards being more basic or acidic? I would guess acidic.

I only ask because my pool is typically within that 9-12 FC range.

Thanks

 

[ajw22]

When FC is above 10, the standard response here is that pH isn’t accurate. Can someone tell me if the high chlorine shifts pH towards being more basic or acidic? I would guess acidic.

Get the K-1766 Taylor Salt Test

The pH reads inaccurately high when FC is above 10.

The Taylor R-0004 pH Indicator solution has a proprietary combination of chlorine neutralizers already in it that try and keep the pH the same when chlorine gets neutralized, but there's only enough to neutralize roughly 10 ppm FC or so of chlorine. They didn't want to add more since they didn't want to adversely affect results by this neutralizer solution (i.e. too much could affect the pH). Handling 0-10 ppm FC seemed reasonable.

The quote from Taylor's Pool & Spa Water Chemistry booklet on the issue of a high FC causing a false high pH reading is as follows:

FALSE READINGS: high levels of chlorine (usually > 10 ppm) will quickly and completely convert phenol red into another pH indicator (chlorphenol red). This new indicator is a dark purple when the water's pH is above 6.6. Unfortunately, some pool operators mistake the purple color for dark red and think the pool water is very alkaline and wrongly add acid to the pool.

When a sanitizer level is not extreme, only some of the phenol red may convert to chlorphenol red. However, purple + orange (for example, pH 7.4) = red. This error is more subtle as no purple color is observed and the operator does not suspect that a false high pH reading has been produced. Some operators neutralize the sanitizer first by adding a drop of chlorine neutralizer (i.e. sodium thiosulfate). However, thiosulfate solutions have a high pH and, if heavily used, may cause a false higher sample pH.

 

[frogabog]

The second paragraph confuses me.

When a sanitizer level is not extreme, only some of the phenol red may convert to chlorphenol red. However, purple + orange (for example, pH 7.4) = red. This error is more subtle as no purple color is observed and the operator does not suspect that a false high pH reading has been produced. Some operators neutralize the sanitizer first by adding a drop of chlorine neutralizer (i.e. sodium thiosulfate). However, thiosulfate solutions have a high pH and, if heavily used, may cause a false higher sample pH.

This paragraph confuses me.

 

[setsailsoon]

Draco,

If you're going to run your FC in this range you should consider a portable pH meter. Good ones have gotten pretty reasonable in price (around $30-$40) and they work very well. Only downside is you have to maintain them properly by using storage solution and calibrate with calibration solution. I use this one from Hanna. There are several others a little cheaper that work fine too. I keep a small container of calibration solution and check it first then rinse and shake the probe to do the test. Takes only a few seconds unless the meter is off and needs calibration. Calibration is much easier on these too. Just press a button, no messing with calibration screw. My standard is 7.01 and I re-calibrate any time it reads 7.1 or 6.9. Peace of mind that my pH and calculated CSI are correct is worth it to me since I have great difficulty with the pH readings in 7.6 or higher with the phenol red test. The meter isn't affected by the FC since it's not detecting a color change.

I hope this helps.

Chris