First Test & #s are off the charts!

[ScottyJ2]

Thoughts? Just do as the recommendations say? Is there an order I should do them in?

ph: 8.2 (if not higher than that)
Recommended - 5lbs, 7oz Dry Acid
Cl: 5
Br: 10 (both Cr and Br seemed even darker than those corresponding numbers, along with the pH)
FC: 10.5
CC: 0.5
TC: 11
CH: I couldn't accurately test for it because the R-0010 bottle just came out as a stream of solution. I couldn't get it to produce drops, so I couldn't accurately get the recommended 10 drops to begin with. Is my R-0010 solution a dud then? Where I live, I have EXTREMELY hard water (30gpg hard) and wonder if this is why my liner feels like sandpaper. Needless to say, I'm anxious to see where this number comes in at.
TA: 210 (yes it took 21 drops for the solution to turn red)
Recommended: to lower TA, reduce pH to 7.0-7.2 with acid and then aerate to increase pH
CYA: 30* - I put an * because I could still see the black dot at the 30 level and just ran out of room in the tube.
Recommended: Add 9lbs of Dry Stabilizer
Salt: 2900 (according to my Hayward app, will confirm if this is accurate with TF Test Kit tomorrow)

I put these numbers into the Pool Math app and the recommendations, as noted above, is what it gave me. In terms of what products I'll use to achieve those recommendations, I do not know. I've never maintained my pool so don't know yet what products are available to me.

Note: A week and a half ago, I had a bad algae issue. The guy who originally installed my pool came by to treat it. He treated it on Monday, May 3rd and the algae seemed to clear up in just a few days. On Saturday though, I saw him pour 3 gallons of Liquid Chlorinator into the pool and he asked me to pour the 4th gallon in on Sunday. I'm adding this in the event this is part of my numbers issue.

I appreciate anyones (and everyone) insight!

 

[magiteck]

What test kit are you using?

Unless you’ve added bromine to your water (you don’t want to), ignore the Br number. That is an “either or” test so in your case the Cl number is the relevant one. As you’ve also seen, that test is useless at levels above 5ppm, so stick with the readings from your FAS-DPD (powder/drop) chlorine test — the 10.5 in your case.

Your FC is a little high for your CYA but not unsafely so. Your pH is high — but that test isn’t as reliable when your FC is over 10.

Action items:
- Add a bit more CYA so you get a measurable level. If you could still see the dot with the vial full, you have less than 30. I’d start by adding another ~10ppm. If you’re just getting over an algae outbreak, treated using non-TFP methods, let’s not get the CYA too high yet in case you need to SLAM Process.

- Let the FC drift down to at/below 10. (The current high reading is probably still from the gallons of LC added.

- Re-check/Verify the pH and then add Muriatic acid to get your pH to ~ 7.4-7.6. [Do not use dry acid, especially with a SWCG]. Since your TA is high your pH will likely rise again pretty quickly. Monitor and add acid to adjust when it gets to 8. Every time you do this, your TA will go down some which will slow the pH rise and so the acid additions will become less frequent.

It does sound like you got a bad CH test. Contact seller for a replacement.

Follow the FC/CYA Levels.

Because of the recent algae treatment, I’d also recommend performing an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to verify it has been fully resolved.

 

[mguzzy]

Yo Scotty, magi covered most of it. Have you read through the ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry and all the other gobbledygoop? Or you have and it still sounds like gobbledygoop.

For the CH test it sounds like something is stuck in the dropper tip. Can you see anything on it/in it? Try wiping it off with a damp rag and see if that has any effect. Its possible to switch tips if you have an old reagent bottle around.

Do you have any idea what the other guy dumped in your pool besides Liquid Chlorine?

 

[DeanP66]

If your test kit is the K2006, you can borrow the top of either the acid demand or base demand bottles. Just make sure you wash it out really well before using it. You won't use either of those bottles much, if at all, especially the base demand because you'll be constantly dropping your TA instead of needing to raise it. Plus, you can just plug in the numbers in Pool Math, which makes those two bottles unnecessary.

 

[ScottyJ2]

@magiteck
1) Test kit is a TF-Pro w/ Smart Stir (you asking that reminded me to put that info in my signature )
2) "Add a bit more CYA" - According to the ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry, I need to add Stabilizer to increase my CYA. I watched the Pool Chemicals for Beginners: Understanding FC/CYA Ratio and have looked at the chart, but that part kind of went over my head. The video talks about balancing my Free Chlorine to my current CYA but it doesn't explain how to, other than I need to look at the chart. But that chart is just a bunch of acronyms to me lol. So I'm adding Stabilizer, right, to add more CYA but also need to add Chlorine to keep the two in balance? How do I know how much to add? Is it based on what Target Numbers I put in the Pool Math App and the recommendation it spits out?
3) I'll re-check the pH today. Will add that log to the Pool Math App and add Muriatic Acid accordingly.
4) I'll perform the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test tonight. If I understand that correctly, I'm just taking a measurement tonight of the FC using my TF test kit. Then taking another FC measurement first thing tomorrow morning, right? Then hoping the number from the morning test stayed the same or went down by less then 1.0.

@mguzzy
1) I just re-read ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry again, and, honestly, after the second & third times around, it's beginning to make a little more sense. I've never owned a pool and this is the first Spring/Summer of having one to maintain on my own without any advice on how to test, what to test and/or how to balance. So when I read a lot of these threads/blogs, it's like reading a foreign language.
2) I didn't see anything on the tip of the reagent. I don't have any old reagents - this is the first kit I've ever owned. I'll try to cut a little off the tip - maybe that's the problem - but I do have an email into the company about my issue.
3) I have no idea what he dumped into the pool prior to adding the Liquid Chlorinator. I'm sure he was most definitely not following TFP Methods.

@DeanP66
1) Not the K2006, but a TF-Pro.

Thank you all for helping out this newbie!
-Scotty J

 

[Newdude]

1) I just re-read ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry again, and, honestly, after the second & third times around, it's beginning to make a little more sense

It took a few tries for all of us. Each time a little more sinks in. Reading *and* doing hammers it home. Especially for newbies clearing a swamp. They’ll test so many times in a short period of time that it clicks reaaaaaal quick. Hang in there. You have us to guide you as long as you need.

How do I know how much to add? Is it based on what Target Numbers I put in the Pool Math App and the recommendation it spits out?

With pool math and a TF-pro you don’t even need us. Run the tests, enter the results and it will tell you where you stand and what is needed. Feel free to ask us the ‘why’s’. But the what’s are covered with the Test kit and the how’s are covered with pool math.

 

[amwillg]

2) "Add a bit more CYA" - According to the ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry, I need to add Stabilizer to increase my CYA. I watched the Pool Chemicals for Beginners: Understanding FC/CYA Ratio and have looked at the chart, but that part kind of went over my head. The video talks about balancing my Free Chlorine to my current CYA but it doesn't explain how to, other than I need to look at the chart. But that chart is just a bunch of acronyms to me lol. So I'm adding Stabilizer, right, to add more CYA but also need to add Chlorine to keep the two in balance? How do I know how much to add? Is it based on what Target Numbers I put in the Pool Math App and the recommendation it spits out?

Yes, add stabilizer (the CYA, cyanuric acid) to get the recommended CYA level. Most people get this as the solid crystals/dots, put the amount into a tube sock tied to a stick/pole and let it float in front of a return jet. Squeeze the sock periodically to help it dissolve.

2) I didn't see anything on the tip of the reagent. I don't have any old reagents - this is the first kit I've ever owned. I'll try to cut a little off the tip - maybe that's the problem - but I do have an email into the company about my issue.

Cutting the tip will not help. Accurate results are based on specific numbers of accurately sized drops.

 

[ScottyJ2]

With pool math and a TF-pro you don’t even need us. Run the tests, enter the results and it will tell you where you stand and what is needed. Feel free to ask us the ‘why’s’. But the what’s are covered with the Test kit and the how’s are covered with pool math.

I've attached my very first logs (as were labeled in my first post).
FC - There's no chemical to lower Free Chlorine levels. So there's nothing I can do about this apparently.
pH (image attached) - Add Muriatic Acid (not sure if it'll be the 29% or the 14.5%, will change accordingly)
TA (image attached)- It actually says to lower my pH to 7.0-7.2, so I assume that means to change the 7.6 that's automatically recommended in pH to 7.2 and therefore change the amount of Muriatic Acid accordingly. I have deck jets and a slide so can run those to aerate the pool to increase the pH (if I'm right that those will help aerate the pool).
CYA (image attached) - Add Stabilizer accordingly.

How does the FC/CYA chart play into these numbers? If I can't add FC, how do I use the chart?

 

[MITBeta]

Sounds like you're on the right track. Don't add all the stabilizer at once in case your pool volume or testing is off a bit. Better to undershoot and correct than overshoot.

 

[Bperry]

If it helps, your priorities are in this order:

1. free chlorine over 5ppm
2. CYA over 30ppm
3. pH needs to be in the 7’s

once you’ve got comfortable with all that, you can start to lower the TA, but it’s not critical right now.

 

[ScottyJ2]

If it helps, your priorities are in this order:

1. free chlorine over 5ppm
2. CYA over 30ppm
3. pH needs to be in the 7’s

once you’ve got comfortable with all that, you can start to lower the TA, but it’s not critical right now.

@Bperry how do I get FC around 5-6ppm when there’s no chemical to reduce it? My reading yesterday had my FC at 10.5.

 

[Newdude]

how do I get FC around 5-6ppm when there’s no chemical to reduce it

One or two days in the sun will bring it down just fine It’s not harmful in any way in the meantime.

 

[wireform]

@Bperry how do I get FC around 5-6ppm when there’s no chemical to reduce it? My reading yesterday had my FC at 10.5.

FC will come down on it's own

 

[Bperry]

@Bperry how do I get FC around 5-6ppm when there’s no chemical to reduce it? My reading yesterday had my FC at 10.5.

The others above got you covered, it’ll lower itself in a day or two. You only need it under 10 to accurately check the pH.

 

[mguzzy]

Sun will consume 4ppm per day of FC in the heat of summer.. right now its slower. If your swg is on, turn it down or off to help the FC drift down.

 

[mguzzy]

1) I just re-read ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry again, and, honestly, after the second & third times around, it's beginning to make a little more sense. I've never owned a pool and this is the first Spring/Summer of having one to maintain on my own without any advice on how to test, what to test and/or how to balance. So when I read a lot of these threads/blogs, it's like reading a foreign language.
2) I didn't see anything on the tip of the reagent. I don't have any old reagents - this is the first kit I've ever owned. I'll try to cut a little off the tip - maybe that's the problem - but I do have an email into the company about my issue.
3) I have no idea what he dumped into the pool prior to adding the Liquid Chlorinator. I'm sure he was most definitely not following TFP Methods.

1) yep.. it will slowly make sense as you play with your pool and see how it responds. Its a nice way to reinforce the reading. For many here it was a foreign language and now they hang out and help others here.
2) Sounds like a bad tip. Like dean says you can play musical tips. Don't cut it off it will change the drop size. TFTestkits are very responsive. they will make you whole! they always do.
3) OK.. we will just have to forge ahead. Your test results are very telling.. I just hope he did put any copper based algaecides in there.. they create a metals mess down the road.

And I will reiterate what others have already said. Lets get the other levels in range and deal with the TA last.

You are doing GREAT! hang in there it will all make sense as you see the effects of the chems on your pool.

 

[ScottyJ2]

++ Added Dry Stabilizer to increase CYA & Added 31.45% (20° Be) Muriatic Acid to drop pH.
++ Added it this afternoon around 3:00pm CDT and took a sample of my pool water for testing at 8:15pm CDT.

Updated Logs:
pH: 7.5
Cl: 5 (this is probably 5+)
FC: 10 --> it's been pretty cloudy these last couple days. Should get some sun Wednesday-Friday. As members have mentioned above, hopefully the sunshine these next couple days help drop this #.
CC: 0.5 (maybe even 0.0)
TC: 10.5
CH: I could do the test and did it as described -- 10 drops R-0010 + 3 drops R-0011L -- Red indicates Calcium but mine turned a very, VERY faint, barely noticeable red. Since it didn't turn Red, does that mean I don't have any calcium? I proceeded with the drops of R-0012 and after 30 drops just stopped. It was just a clear color and never showed signs of turning blue. Should I have kept going?
PS - @mguzzy your advice of wiping the tip off with a damp cloth worked by the way.
TA: 200
CYA: 60 (my best guess at least)
Salt: 2800

What's next? A little more Stabilizer to get my CYA in the 70s? Should I start tackling TA now? Should I be worried about my inability to gather CH data?

@magiteck - I had planned on doing the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test but forgot to shut the chlorinator off after gathering my pool sample and testing for FC tonight. If you think it's still needed, I'll give it another attempt tomorrow night. While on this topic though, I imagine to shut off my SWG, I just toggle the green switch in the top right corner of my Hayward app to off. See Image. Would you agree? Or set the Chlorinator Set Point to 0%?

Chlorinator Set Point % -- I've never messed with the percentage. What should this be at and why? Does it ever need to be changed?

Y'all have been so very helpful by the way. I plan to be a Supporter of TFP this week.

 

[magiteck]

++ Added Dry Stabilizer to increase CYA & Added 31.45% (20° Be) Muriatic Acid to drop pH.
++ Added it this afternoon around 3:00pm CDT and took a sample of my pool water for testing at 8:15pm CDT.

Updated Logs:
pH: 7.5
Cl: 5 (this is probably 5+)
FC: 10 --> it's been pretty cloudy these last couple days. Should get some sun Wednesday-Friday. As members have mentioned above, hopefully the sunshine these next couple days help drop this #.
CC: 0.5 (maybe even 0.0)
TC: 10.5
CH: I could do the test and did it as described -- 10 drops R-0010 + 3 drops R-0011L -- Red indicates Calcium but mine turned a very, VERY faint, barely noticeable red. Since it didn't turn Red, does that mean I don't have any calcium? I proceeded with the drops of R-0012 and after 30 drops just stopped. It was just a clear color and never showed signs of turning blue. Should I have kept going?
PS - @mguzzy your advice of wiping the tip off with a damp cloth worked by the way.
TA: 200
CYA: 60 (my best guess at least)
Salt: 2800

What's next? A little more Stabilizer to get my CYA in the 70s? Should I start tackling TA now? Should I be worried about my inability to gather CH data?

@magiteck - I had planned on doing the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test but forgot to shut the chlorinator off after gathering my pool sample and testing for FC tonight. If you think it's still needed, I'll give it another attempt tomorrow night. While on this topic though, I imagine to shut off my SWG, I just toggle the green switch in the top right corner of my Hayward app to off. See Image. Would you agree? Or set the Chlorinator Set Point to 0%?

Chlorinator Set Point % -- I've never messed with the percentage. What should this be at and why? Does it ever need to be changed?

Y'all have been so very helpful by the way. I plan to be a Supporter of TFP this week.

I’d do the OCLT before adding any more CYA. You just want to confirm that you have no lingering algae — because if you do, you’ll need to SLAM Process, and that’s more difficult at higher CYA levels.

I’m not familiar with the operation of SWGs so hopefully someone else will chime in on your question RE turning it off.

 

[mknauss]

@ScottyJ2
Please do not use different font colors. It is very hard to read.

 

[mguzzy]

flip the switch to off... The hayward controllers still run about 5% when the knob is turned to 0..

I'll have to let someone else chime in on the CH test. That doesn't make sense to me. I do know that all the drop tests get unreliable when you get to 50 drops.. so really at thirty, yeah stop wasting reagent.