First Test & #s are off the charts!

ScottyJ2

Gold Supporter
Apr 28, 2021
24
Troy, IL
Pool Size
24000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
@magiteck - Will do the OCLT tonight and report back tomorrow morning.
@mguzzy - thanks! Any thoughts on what my Chlorinator Set Point % should be set at? It's at 65% now. Does that need adjusted during the Spring/Summer?
 

Newdude

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 16, 2019
9,195
NY
thoughts on what my Chlorinator Set Point % should be set at? It's at 65% now. Does that need adjusted during the Spring/Summer?
You will find your initial set point for the early season and then adjust upwards as needed as the UV ramps up to the mid point of the season. For the back half you will adjust downward every few weeks or month.
 
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ScottyJ2

Gold Supporter
Apr 28, 2021
24
Troy, IL
Pool Size
24000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
@magiteck - performed OCLT and here are my results:
Yesterday @ 8:40pm / Today @ 7:40am (sun doesn't start hitting my pool until about 8:15am)
FC: 12 / 11
CC: 0.5 / 0.5
TC: 12.5 / 11.5
So a drop of 1ppm.
From reading, it needs to be 1 or less so I'm assuming I'm good but will take your advice on how to move forward.

Other readings:
pH: 7.8
Cl: 5+
TA: 200
CYA: 50-60 (I'm still getting a feel for this test)
Salt: 2800
 

Bperry

Gold Supporter
Aug 20, 2020
606
Knoxville, TN
Pool Size
27000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool RJ-60
@magiteck - performed OCLT and here are my results:
Yesterday @ 8:40pm / Today @ 7:40am (sun doesn't start hitting my pool until about 8:15am)
FC: 12 / 11
CC: 0.5 / 0.5
TC: 12.5 / 11.5
So a drop of 1ppm.
From reading, it needs to be 1 or less so I'm assuming I'm good but will take your advice on how to move forward.

Other readings:
pH: 7.8
Cl: 5+
TA: 200
CYA: 50-60 (I'm still getting a feel for this test)
Salt: 2800
Reminder that you can drop the total chlorine measurement since it’s just a combination of FC and CC so the actual TC number isn’t useful.

also, the pH reading isn’t reliable with the FC above 10 so can probably way for it to come down before testing that again.
 

ScottyJ2

Gold Supporter
Apr 28, 2021
24
Troy, IL
Pool Size
24000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
Reminder that you can drop the total chlorine measurement since it’s just a combination of FC and CC so the actual TC number isn’t useful.
Ah, you're right. I'm petty sure I've been told that already too. I'll stop adding. Thanks @Bperry !
 

magiteck

Gold Supporter
May 20, 2020
579
Neenah, Wisconsin
Pool Size
13600
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Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
@magiteck - performed OCLT and here are my results:
Yesterday @ 8:40pm / Today @ 7:40am (sun doesn't start hitting my pool until about 8:15am)
FC: 12 / 11
CC: 0.5 / 0.5
TC: 12.5 / 11.5
So a drop of 1ppm.
From reading, it needs to be 1 or less so I'm assuming I'm good but will take your advice on how to move forward.

Other readings:
pH: 7.8
Cl: 5+
TA: 200
CYA: 50-60 (I'm still getting a feel for this test)
Salt: 2800
Go swimming. :)

You still want to let your FC drift down below 10 so you can get an accurate pH reading. Maybe turn the SWG off for a day and let the sun do its thing, then re-test.

With the high TA you’ll probably be adding acid semi-frequently to keep the pH in check below 8. No big deal, each time that happens the TA will come down a bit too and the acid additions will become less frequent.

Follow the FC/CYA Chart and adjust your SWG as needed to keep your FC in range. Above minimum is the most important. If you start to find it harder to hold onto the FC you could boost your CYA to ~70 but I’d say that’s not urgent.

Overall you’re doing great.
 

ScottyJ2

Gold Supporter
Apr 28, 2021
24
Troy, IL
Pool Size
24000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
Go swimming. :)
I wish. Just 64 degrees here.

Maybe turn the SWG off for a day and let the sun do its thing, then re-test.
Will see if it works (y) (y)

Follow the FC/CYA Chart and adjust your SWG as needed to keep your FC in range.
What would I adjust? The Chlorinator Set Point % or do I lower my Salt levels (it's currently reading at 2800 ppm)?

Overall you’re doing great.
It's a learning curve, that's no doubt. You (and everyone else on this thread) have been a lot of help!
 

magiteck

Gold Supporter
May 20, 2020
579
Neenah, Wisconsin
Pool Size
13600
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
What would I adjust? The Chlorinator Set Point % or do I lower my Salt levels (it's currently reading at 2800 ppm)?
No need to adjust salt levels if the SWG isn’t complaining. You can adjust chlorine output by either changing the set point % or the runtime.

You can use PoolMath under the “Effects of Adding” section to see how much chlorine you’re producing. Select “SWG” for the chlorine type. You’ll add the rated output for your SWG and then you can see the various chlorine amounts generated at different set points and run times.
 

ScottyJ2

Gold Supporter
Apr 28, 2021
24
Troy, IL
Pool Size
24000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
@magiteck - turned SWG off for a day (Thursday afternoon to Friday around 10:00am). So the SWG's been running since Friday morning and my water sample is from this morning. By the way, had a good day of sun on Thursday, and Friday for that matter.
Here are the numbers:
FC: 14​
CC: 0.5​
TA: 200​
CYA: 60-ish​
Salt: 3000​
Not including pH since it's probably inaccurate with high FC. When I tested Cl, it was a dark yellow color (and not the bright yellow color it normally is). Honestly, it was like the color you pee when you're dehydrated :p. So I'm really not sure where my Cl level is and maybe that's not as important as the FC number (?).

Is lowering FC my main importance or should I concentrate on something else? Turn the SWG back off for a couple days and see what happens?
 

Newdude

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 16, 2019
9,195
NY
So I'm really not sure where my Cl level is and maybe that's not as important as the FC number (?).
It’s the same # either way, but the powder test tells you the actual level and the drop test tells you ‘really dehydrated yellow’.
Is lowering FC my main importance or should I concentrate on something else? Turn the SWG back off for a couple days and see what happens
Yup. It’s not even a big concern, just the next step. Let the FC drift down under 10 and see if it holds. Once it’s in range, the PH test will be trustable and you can (easily) adjust it as needed.
 
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Bperry

Gold Supporter
Aug 20, 2020
606
Knoxville, TN
Pool Size
27000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool RJ-60
@magiteck - turned SWG off for a day (Thursday afternoon to Friday around 10:00am). So the SWG's been running since Friday morning and my water sample is from this morning. By the way, had a good day of sun on Thursday, and Friday for that matter.
Here are the numbers:
FC: 14​
CC: 0.5​
TA: 200​
CYA: 60-ish​
Salt: 3000​
Not including pH since it's probably inaccurate with high FC. When I tested Cl, it was a dark yellow color (and not the bright yellow color it normally is). Honestly, it was like the color you pee when you're dehydrated :p. So I'm really not sure where my Cl level is and maybe that's not as important as the FC number (?).

Is lowering FC my main importance or should I concentrate on something else? Turn the SWG back off for a couple days and see what happens?
For reference, FC = CL. (Free chlorine = chlorine) No need to test both.

just stick with the FAS-DPD as it’s more accurate.
 
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ScottyJ2

Gold Supporter
Apr 28, 2021
24
Troy, IL
Pool Size
24000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
For reference, FC = CL. (Free chlorine = chlorine) No need to test both.

just stick with the FAS-DPD as it’s more accurate.
It’s the same # either way, but the powder test tells you the actual level and the drop test tells you ‘really dehydrated yellow’.
This is helpful. It makes sense, now, that they'd be testing for the same thing, the two different initials just threw me off. Thanks for the "heads up".
 
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ScottyJ2

Gold Supporter
Apr 28, 2021
24
Troy, IL
Pool Size
24000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
Well I'm in need of some more advice from my TFP friends @Newdude @Bperry @mguzzy @magiteck .

I was in the pool today for the second time this year and my liner feels really rough. It felt the same way the first time I was in the pool about 3 weeks ago. It's not the smooth liner it once was back in September when the pool was finished. My pool guy tells me it's built-up scale. I guess I can understand that because we have INCREDIBLY hard water (30 gpg hard - whereas a value of 10 gpg is considered very hard - so yeah ours is off the charts). When i was swimming underwater, I noticed this white-like coating on the floor of the pool and when rubbing my hand on it, it feels really, really rough. The things is, it was mainly in the shallow ends of the pool, as well as the slopes heading towards the deep end. But in the deep end, I didn't really notice it on my feet or hand when rubbing it.

I tested my Calcium Hardness this evening and it came back at 300ppm (which the jury is still out on if that's accurate because I still question the drops coming out of my reagents). Knowing we have TERRIBLY bad hard water, I expected the Calcium Hardness to be crazy high -- so this also leads me to believe that the 300 number might not be accurate.

Thoughts? Suggestions on what to do? I think I read in an old forum post from 2020 that lowering the pH to 6.8 might help get rid of the build-up, with maybe some scrubbing too. Is that one way of tackling this without draining the water ---> which draining the water is not an option because I'd just be filling it back up with hard water again.

Note: When the water level does get low in the future and I need to raise it an inch or two, I do plan on using softened water from a house water line.

Here are my other numbers:
pH: 8.2 (I added a gallon of acid to help lower this)
FC: 8.5
CC: 0.5
CH: 300 (?)
TA: 190
CYA: 50-60
Salt: 3000

Thanks!
Scotty J
 

Bperry

Gold Supporter
Aug 20, 2020
606
Knoxville, TN
Pool Size
27000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool RJ-60
Well I'm in need of some more advice from my TFP friends @Newdude @Bperry @mguzzy @magiteck .

I was in the pool today for the second time this year and my liner feels really rough. It felt the same way the first time I was in the pool about 3 weeks ago. It's not the smooth liner it once was back in September when the pool was finished. My pool guy tells me it's built-up scale. I guess I can understand that because we have INCREDIBLY hard water (30 gpg hard - whereas a value of 10 gpg is considered very hard - so yeah ours is off the charts). When i was swimming underwater, I noticed this white-like coating on the floor of the pool and when rubbing my hand on it, it feels really, really rough. The things is, it was mainly in the shallow ends of the pool, as well as the slopes heading towards the deep end. But in the deep end, I didn't really notice it on my feet or hand when rubbing it.

I tested my Calcium Hardness this evening and it came back at 300ppm (which the jury is still out on if that's accurate because I still question the drops coming out of my reagents). Knowing we have TERRIBLY bad hard water, I expected the Calcium Hardness to be crazy high -- so this also leads me to believe that the 300 number might not be accurate.

Thoughts? Suggestions on what to do? I think I read in an old forum post from 2020 that lowering the pH to 6.8 might help get rid of the build-up, with maybe some scrubbing too. Is that one way of tackling this without draining the water ---> which draining the water is not an option because I'd just be filling it back up with hard water again.

Note: When the water level does get low in the future and I need to raise it an inch or two, I do plan on using softened water from a house water line.

Here are my other numbers:
pH: 8.2 (I added a gallon of acid to help lower this)
FC: 8.5
CC: 0.5
CH: 300 (?)
TA: 190
CYA: 50-60
Salt: 3000

Thanks!
Scotty J
If you use the PoolMath app, it’ll calculate CSI for you. CSI above zero will tend to scale and below zero is acidic. If it is calcium scale, you want to keep the CSI below zero, between -0.6 to 0.

rheres some tests you can do to figure out if it’s calcium, I’d have to let someone else take that though.
 

magiteck

Gold Supporter
May 20, 2020
579
Neenah, Wisconsin
Pool Size
13600
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Can you turn on the CSI tracking in PoolMath? That will add an entry to your test logs.

Click the settings/gear icon at the top. Scroll down and toggle “Track CSI” to on. Click the check mark to save the settings.

That will give you the value that @Bperry is referring to.
 

DeanP66

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2014
1,229
San Jose, CA
ScottyJ2,

If your water is 30 gpg hard, that translates to 513 ppm hardness, although that also includes magnesium in the calculation. Your CH is probably in the 450ppm range so I'd question that dropper tip's accuracy.

Even at CH 300ppm, with your other numbers posted and assuming a water temp of ~70 degrees, your CSI would be 0.72 which would definitely lead to scale.

If your CH is closer to 450, which I suspect, you could drop your pH down to 7.4 and your TA down to 80 (with muriatic acid and aeration) and with your other numbers, your CSI would then drop to -0.34. That would go a long way in getting some of that scale to dissolve, but it will take some time.

Piping in your soft water from your softener for top ups will definitely help keep the CH in check, but also, be more vigilant about keeping the pH down. Don't wait for it to get up to 8.2. Drop it to 7.2 or 7.4 and once it hits 7.8, drop it back down again. This will keep your CSI on the negative side even once the water temp goes up even more. You could even drop your TA down to as low as 60 if you want, but depending on what your fill water's TA reads, it might tend to drive it up over time like mine. I keep my TA in the 70-80ppm range, but my fill water TA of 330 continually drives it up, so I have to do a little extra dosing with muriatic acid and aeration to get it back down.
 
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ScottyJ2

Gold Supporter
Apr 28, 2021
24
Troy, IL
Pool Size
24000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
Click the settings/gear icon at the top. Scroll down and toggle “Track CSI” to on. Click the check mark to save the settings.

That will give you the value that @Bperry is referring to.
I wasn't sure what CSI was and didn't know how to find it. This was helpful Thanks!

ScottyJ2,

If your water is 30 gpg hard, that translates to 513 ppm hardness, although that also includes magnesium in the calculation. Your CH is probably in the 450ppm range so I'd question that dropper tip's accuracy.

Even at CH 300ppm, with your other numbers posted and assuming a water temp of ~70 degrees, your CSI would be 0.72 which would definitely lead to scale.

If your CH is closer to 450, which I suspect, you could drop your pH down to 7.4 and your TA down to 80 (with muriatic acid and aeration) and with your other numbers, your CSI would then drop to -0.34. That would go a long way in getting some of that scale to dissolve, but it will take some time.

Piping in your soft water from your softener for top ups will definitely help keep the CH in check, but also, be more vigilant about keeping the pH down. Don't wait for it to get up to 8.2. Drop it to 7.2 or 7.4 and once it hits 7.8, drop it back down again. This will keep your CSI on the negative side even once the water temp goes up even more. You could even drop your TA down to as low as 60 if you want, but depending on what your fill water's TA reads, it might tend to drive it up over time like mine. I keep my TA in the 70-80ppm range, but my fill water TA of 330 continually drives it up, so I have to do a little extra dosing with muriatic acid and aeration to get it back down.
Thanks @DeanP66 . I haven't been great about keeping my pH in check, so hearing this (i.e. keeping it in the 7.4 range) will motivate me to be more diligent. My TA number has always been crazy high and it's my understanding (with help from other posters in this thread) that lowering the pH is what helps lower my TA number. So it looks like I need to be a lot better on keeping that pH in check. Mission Accepted ✅

I'll also start plugging the numbers into the PoolMath app to gauge my CSI...and will work on getting that in the negatives! When you say it may take some time, is that weeks or months you think? Or does the speed depend on how negative my CSI number is?
 

magiteck

Gold Supporter
May 20, 2020
579
Neenah, Wisconsin
Pool Size
13600
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
I haven't been great about keeping my pH in check, so hearing this (i.e. keeping it in the 7.4 range) will motivate me to be more diligent. My TA number has always been crazy high and it's my understanding (with help from other posters in this thread) that lowering the pH is what helps lower my TA number.
Adding acid (muratic acid) will work to lower both your pH and your TA. It will lower pH a lot more than it will lower TA, so it is a process.

Basically, you'll add acid to lower your pH. You can go to 7.2 vs 7.4 even if you want this process to move faster, but either will work. When you add this acid, your TA will go down some.

Because your TA will still be high, though, your pH will quickly drift back up to 8+ where it wants to be. You can speed up this natural pH rise by aerating the water, i.e. having it move at the surface with splashing/fountains/pointing your returns upward/etc.

When the pH gets close to 8 again, you'll repeat this cycle and lower it back down to 7.2/7.4. The lower the TA gets, the longer it should take the pH to drift back up. Over time, with your TA down you should get closer to an equilibrium where the pH is comfortable in the 7s and you don't have to add acid so often.
 

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