Extra single wire from spa light? Repairing junction box

cope360

Bronze Supporter
Feb 20, 2021
9
Austin, TX
The junction box for my spa light was previously mounted to a fence post. We had the fence removed and the box was ripped off breaking the conduit at the box and pulling the connections. I had never looked in this box before to know how it was wired.

I have now repaired the conduit and mounted a new box to the house. The connections of the hot, neutral, and ground are obvious but I have one extra wire I am not sure about (see photo). I'm guessing this could be for bonding. If so, should it connect to green/ground from the load center?
 

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Welcome to TFP.

The wire is a supplemental ground wire. It's required by code.

If you used a Pool Light Junction box it would have a ground strip to attach the green ground wire and the bonding wire together.


9bf0de2f-fd8d-4e93-b6cc-a5f69d98f90f-png.115773
Welcome to TFP.
 
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If the conduit is nonmetalic and the light is not low voltage, then the supplemental ground is required.

The junction box is required to be listed by a NRTL (like UL) for the purpose.

The bottom of the junction box must be at least 8" above the highest water level and at least 4" above the deck.

If non-metallic conduit is used, a No. 8 AWG bonding/grounding wire must be installed through the conduit
from the Junction Box to the bonding/grounding lug inside the niche.

Seal the wire/lug connection with a listed sealant to protect the connection from possible pool water corrosion.

1726964064577.png
 


NEC Code 680.24 requirements for junction boxes

The Junction Box complies with all the requirements of UL1241 and the National Electric Code.


UL 1241
Junction Boxes for Swimming Pool Luminaires
UL Standard
Edition 7
Published Date: June 11, 2003
Last Revision: April 12, 2022
ANSI Approved: April 12, 2022
 
Thanks everyone for the detailed and fast replies! This is a 120V light.

I didn't know there was a special box for this purpose (the old box that was damaged was a similar type).

Looks like the course of action here is to use the specialized box and check the requirements for distance from the pool, height above water level, and height above deck. The box location is uphill from the pool so it may be ok even through it is close to the ground.
 
Looks like the course of action here is to use the specialized box and check the requirements for distance from the pool, height above water level, and height above deck. The box location is uphill from the pool so it may be ok even through it is close to the ground.
I think @JamesW and @ajw22 offered some solid and thorough advice, and your planned course of action seems appropriate - although I don't recall seeing the word "uphill" in NEC 680 :)

Not that you want to expand the project, but a few other things came to mind:
1. You might want to read more of NEC 680 to see about that other metallic conduit pictured in your photo, for it's height, use, distance from pool edge and therefore any additional requirements about bonding of it, where it goes, etc.
2. All controls / sources on tested GFCI circuits.
3. While working on the proper rated, elevated Jbox & related connections, you may want to check that #8 supplemental bonding wire coming from the spa niche for solid low-resistance connection to the rest of the bonding - such as measuring resistance back to the bonding wire on the equipment pad. Per the prior enclosed diagrams the niche would be bonded to the rest of the bonding grid - buried in the concrete - but good to verify same with an ohmmeter. Run that test with the other green ground wire disconnected at the Jbox so you're not reading "across a loop".
4. Given the old Jbox was not rated for pool use and mounted low to a fence, it makes me wonder about your other pool lighting.
5. I know 120V pool lighting remains a thing, and I love electricity, but I would consider installing a transformer at the pad and converting everything to 12V - and still driven by GFCI on the primary. It's just that the implications of things going wrong are so very deadly around 120volts and pools. I guess raising the Jbox may result in a cord length issue, so you may wind up replacing the luminaire with a longer integrated cord and a longer bonding wire from the niche.

Sorry if all that sounds like a lot :cry:
 

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Sorry if all that sounds like a lot :cry:
It does! This and other pool projects are like peeling an onion. Finding one problem after another.

Switching to 12V is attractive just to cut out the risk.

Given the old Jbox was not rated for pool use and mounted low to a fence, it makes me wonder about your other pool lighting.
The cord for the other light runs all the to the load center. It is definitely high enough off the ground. It does not have j box. Is the box always required or is running it all the way to the load center ok?
 
It does! This and other pool projects are like peeling an onion. Finding one problem after another.

Switching to 12V is attractive just to cut out the risk.


The cord for the other light runs all the to the load center. It is definitely high enough off the ground. It does not have j box. Is the box always required or is running it all the way to the load center ok?
You should probably check code for your location.

That being said, many codes require
  • 'x' inches above the pool water surface
  • Some type of airgap to prevent water flowing back to the panel
  • A specific type of junction box
  • Bonding (not just a ground wire)
  • Etc.....
 
(B) Transformer or GFCI Enclosure. If the enclosure for a transformer or GFCI is connected to a raceway that extends directly to an underwater permanently installed pool, outdoor spa, or outdoor hot tub luminaire forming shell, the enclosure must comply with the following:
(1) Construction.
The enclosure must be listed and labeled for the purpose, and be:
(1) Equipped with threaded entries or a nonmetallic hub,
(2) Constructed of copper, brass, or corrosion-resistant material approved by the authority having jurisdiction, and
(4) Provided with electrical continuity between metal raceways andthe grounding terminals of the enclosure.
Author’s Comment:
See the definitions of “Labeled” and “Listed” in Article 100.
The enclosure has to be listed for the purpose (complies with all the requirements of UL1241).

You can ask the load center manufacturer if it is ok to run the conduit directly from the light to the load center without a junction box.

If you switch to a low voltage light, the transformer will be the junction box.

The transformer has to be listed as a pool light transformer.

 
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is running it all the way to the load center ok?
I've never seen one without a Jbox, but other folks have more experience. They're often hidden in a hedge but usually "near" the light(s) / away from the pool edge. They sell 12V led luminaires with 150 foot and longer cords, so maybe some authorities allow it. More squirrely non-code-compliant things are done - sometimes they even mount a non rated box low and to a fence :shaking2: I think @proavia offered some good reasoning/advice.

Peeling an onion a good comparison methinks, just not limited to pools when we inherit weirdness from prior owners (or builders for that matter). I had this breaker that couldn't be turned on without it popping - turned out someone wired two circuits (from two different phases) to a common tandem wall switch. Long lists of things like that, unfortunately! These type of LED lights seem all the rage for $200-$300, downside being the bulbs are not replaceable, so one has to hope for longevity I suppose. Personally I prefer a luminaire that supports 12v where I can choose & replace the bulb. My wife prefers white and good bright / white led 12v bulbs can be had for $65 or so. A pal of mine has this one for 18 months and likes it. Lots of threads I guess here in TFP on various options.
 
If you switch to a low voltage light, the transformer will be the junction box.
Hmmm - @JamesW not sure what you mean by this. If we're talking about remote Jboxes just outside the pool area, although I've seen advertising for lights with transformers that say you can put the transformer just about anyplace - eg mounted in Jboxes - it's never been clear to me just how that would be done safely and with a Jbox that had adequate space. I've only seen pool-rated transformers mounted on a wall at the equipment pad. I'm hoping to learn something!
 
The junction box, transformer or approved enclosure must be at least 4 feet from the inside wall of the pool.

"The Junction Box (or 12 volt light models, the low voltage transformer) must be located at least 8 in (20.32 cm) above the maximum water level and at least 4 in (10.2 cm) above the ground level or pool deck whichever provides the greater elevation.

The junction box shall be no less than 4 ft (1.22 m) from the inside wall of the pool, unless separated from the pool by a solid fence, wall or other permanent barrier. See Figure 1.

The Junction Box should also be located at least 48 in (122 cm) minimum (3 m (10 ft.) Canada) from the edge of the pool, see Figure 1.
c. The light fixture and all metal items within 5 ft. (153 cm) minimum of the pool must be properly electrically bonded.
d. Bond the niche-fixture housing to all other metallic items within 5 ft (1.53 m) of the pool, using a No. 8 AWG bond wire.

The Bond connection is located at the rear of the niche, see Figure 1."
 
Model: PX300 and PX300S - 300 W Transformers
INPUT: 120 VAC, 3 A, MAX, OUTPUT: 12, 13 or 14 VAC, 300 W
Suitable for direct connection to underwater lights and for Indoor/Outdoor installations except in CANADA - Low
Voltage Landscape Lighting installation - Outdoor only.






Description
These safety transformers are specifically designed to supply 12-14 VAC and are suitable for direct connection to underwater pool/spa lights.

A grounded shield between the primary and secondary winding assures safe operation.

Built-in circuit protection will disconnect power to the transformer in case of an overload.
 
The junction box, transformer or approved enclosure must be at least 4 feet from the inside wall of the pool.

"The Junction Box (or 12 volt light models, the low voltage transformer) must be located at least 8 in (20.32 cm) above the maximum water level and at least 4 in (10.2 cm) above the ground level or pool deck whichever provides the greater elevation.

The junction box shall be no less than 4 ft (1.22 m) from the inside wall of the pool, unless separated from the pool by a solid fence, wall or other permanent barrier. See Figure 1.

The Junction Box should also be located at least 48 in (122 cm) minimum (3 m (10 ft.) Canada) from the edge of the pool, see Figure 1.
c. The light fixture and all metal items within 5 ft. (153 cm) minimum of the pool must be properly electrically bonded.
d. Bond the niche-fixture housing to all other metallic items within 5 ft (1.53 m) of the pool, using a No. 8 AWG bond wire.

The Bond connection is located at the rear of the niche, see Figure 1."
All good, thanks @JamesW. I might have been nitpicking but I was just trying to draw a distinction between the type of remote Jbox the OP might be considering, versus one of those full blown rated transfomers (eg intermatic & others you kindly linked) that are effectively their own Jbox. Comparative pictures below. Just didn't want to leave someone with the impression that there was such a thing as a rated transformer that could be plopped into a rated Jbox.

So I guess folks might leave 120V running out to the yard and place the transformer there, observing height/distance requirements, then they have less re-wiring to do. Then run new conduit from the new transformer over to a small, rated Jbox for each other light. Unless you had a need or desire to install multiple transformers, eg if on different controls.
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If you switch to a low voltage light, the transformer will be the junction box.

Just didn't want to leave someone with the impression that there was such a thing as a rated transformer that could be plopped into a rated Jbox.
Note that I said that the transformer would be the junction box and not that the transformer would be in the junction box.

In any case, you can use a listed junction box with low voltage lights and then put the transformer near the equipment.
 

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