Expansion joint

[Aquaman7]

I’m in the process of planning to build an in ground vinyl saltwater pool. The panels will be polymer. The backfill will be 3/4” clean crushed stone. The coping and the pool deck will be pavers. Do I have to put an expansion joint between the coping pavers and the deck pavers? If so, what kind of material would I use?

Thank you,
Joe

 

[ajw22]

I think an expansion joint is a good idea. @jimmythegreek thoughts?

Best flexible sealant for expansion joints is

DECK-O-SEAL - Polysulfide-Based Joint Sealant

Seal all cracks and joints with DECK-O-SEAL two-part, elastomeric, polysulfide-based joint sealant. DECK-O-SEAL is used for caulking and sealing joints subject to concrete movement to provide a firm, flexible, weather-tight seal. It is ideal for sealing joints around swimming pools, and for...

www.deckoseal.com

 

[jimmythegreek]

I leave a fat joint when using pavers. I like to space a solid 1/4 joint behind coping which helps make the cuts look good and gives some room. I just polysand the whole thing after I grout the coping. Never had an issue the pavers dont move. We use minimum 12" of base material and geotextile fabric. Alot of clay soils here

 

[Aquaman7]

Thank you aj and Jim.

Jim, Do you fill the 1/4” joint behind the coping stone with polysand? or something like ay mentioned?

Do you use regular mortar for the side joints and under the coping stone?

 

[jimmythegreek]

I only use laticrete 254 thinset for coping. If you try to chip coping it breaks before the thinset its super strong. I do either 1/4" gap or 3/8" depends on pavers used but 3/8 is best for curved pools. I grout with a bag using good type S mortar and joint roller to finish. When mud sets up slick off back flush to the rear of coping. I then do the pavers with a matching gap of the joint behind coping and finish with polysand on whole thing. After a few months I go back and clean it all blow it off them seal the pavers. I only use penetrating sealers the coping is a pain to do but worth it

 

[Aquaman7]

Thank you Jimmy

 

[Aquaman7]

Jimmy,

Have you ever had to remove the coping from a pool edge when Laticrete? Is it difficult? Reason being is I might make a form to make pavers and pool coping. If the product doesn’t look good after a few years I would like to know if the pool coping would be easy to remove. Will it damage the Top of the polymer pool wall?

Thank a lot Jimmy.
Joe

 

[jimmythegreek]

You dont adhere anything to the pool walls. When you so individual precast coping you form a small pad to stick to behind and under the wall cap

If I understand your post, you are saying you are going to form your own pavers and coping?

 

[Aquaman7]

You dont adhere anything to the pool walls. When you so individual precast coping you form a small pad to stick to behind and under the wall cap

If I understand your post, you are saying you are going to form your own pavers and coping?

Yes. I going to cast a few pavers and coping. If they come out nice I will use it around the pool. I’m going to make it with “Rapid set cement all” brand cement.

How wide should the wall pad be? Too the end of the coping? I’m guessing the pad is going to go around the perimeter of the pool? The coping I will cast will be 6”Lx12”W.

 

[jimmythegreek]

The pad would be inside edge of pool wall to just short of coping width in your case 10.5 " You want to be shy of the rear of coping and account for overhang. 5-6" thick and ideally it's one continuous pour. We drill thru the holes in panels where they connect and use rebar pieces to strengthen those spots. Need a copper bond wire jumper when you do the bond ring.
Not to sway you, but I wouldnt bother with the attempt to cast pavers or coping. You can never replicate the material used. The casting is very controlled with rubber forms and release agents and the concrete is very high strength like 6000+ psi and dry mixed then vibrated to form. It is SO much work to prep a proper base, then set and pour the coping base. You dont want to have to fudge every piece trying to make things level, and then when you install pavers and compact them they will crack. Its just not worth the effort. You can get decent quality stuff for cheap. Find a CST dealer near you and use their coping and pavers. The laticrete I referenced is 60 bucks a bag you will need several bags. CST coping is around 2 bucks a piece 2 pieces is a sqft. Average pool is 120 pieces coping. Just not worth the labor or effort to make stuff and then redo it or it fails. If I understand you ate planning to DIY this pool? If so I promise you by the time it comes to the decking you will be wondering what you got yourself into and sick of the pool build.

 

[bdavis466]

Yes. I going to cast a few pavers and coping. If they come out nice I will use it around the pool. I’m going to make it with “Rapid set cement all” brand cement.

How wide should the wall pad be? Too the end of the coping? I’m guessing the pad is going to go around the perimeter of the pool? The coping I will cast will be 6”Lx12”W.

Have you priced that out? RapidSet isn't cheap either. When you also factor in your time you will have very expensive pavers that may not perform as less expensive alternatives.

 

[Aquaman7]

The pad would be inside edge of pool wall to just short of coping width in your case 10.5 " You want to be shy of the rear of coping and account for overhang. 5-6" thick and ideally it's one continuous pour. We drill thru the holes in panels where they connect and use rebar pieces to strengthen those spots. Need a copper bond wire jumper when you do the bond ring.
Not to sway you, but I wouldnt bother with the attempt to cast pavers or coping. You can never replicate the material used. The casting is very controlled with rubber forms and release agents and the concrete is very high strength like 6000+ psi and dry mixed then vibrated to form. It is SO much work to prep a proper base, then set and pour the coping base. You dont want to have to fudge every piece trying to make things level, and then when you install pavers and compact them they will crack. Its just not worth the effort. You can get decent quality stuff for cheap. Find a CST dealer near you and use their coping and pavers. The laticrete I referenced is 60 bucks a bag you will need several bags. CST coping is around 2 bucks a piece 2 pieces is a sqft. Average pool is 120 pieces coping. Just not worth the labor or effort to make stuff and then redo it or it fails. If I understand you ate planning to DIY this pool? If so I promise you by the time it comes to the decking you will be wondering what you got yourself into and sick of the pool build.

Jimmy,
You are very knowledgeable and extremely helpful. I will cast the concrete ring, like you mentioned. As far as casting my own coping/ pavers your the third person to tell me “don’t waste your time”. Advice taken. I’ll look at CST website to see what they have available. Yes I will be doing DIY. and I’m sure your right again, by the end I’ll be sick of the pool build.
I have to draw up the planes and submit to the town for permits. Once I start I’ll take pictures and post them on TFP.

Thanks Joe

 

[Aquaman7]

Have you priced that out? RapidSet isn't cheap either. When you also factor in your time you will have very expensive pavers that may not perform as less expensive alternatives.

Come to think of it. I didn’t price our Rapid set. I price out Sakcrete which was 4.00 a 80 lbs. bag. Have to look into Rapidset. Yes and time is always a factor. Point taken.
Thanks

 

[bdavis466]

I believe a 50lb bag is $15 and one sack might make 4 normal sized pavers. RapidSet isn't easy to work with if you don't use their Flow Control plasticizer too so that's another $5 per bag.

 

[Aquaman7]

I believe a 50lb bag is $15 and one sack might make 4 normal sized pavers. RapidSet isn't easy to work with if you don't use their Flow Control plasticizer too so that's another $5 per bag.

15.00 = 4 pavers + time definitely not worth it. I do take pride when working with my hands and finishing a project but this, I know is going to fall under the “what the heck was I thinking” category. Just like you and Jimmy has said better, cheaper, easier to buy them. I just have to find something I like. Here is the link to where I got the Idea.

BTW I seen a bunch of posts on TFP of your last project. You do great work.

Joe

 

[Aquaman7]

15.00 = 4 pavers + time definitely not worth it. I do take pride when working with my hands and finishing a project but this, I know is going to fall under the “what the **** was I thinking” category. Just like you and Jimmy has said better, cheaper, easier to buy them. I just have to find something I like. Here is the link to where I got the Idea.

BTW I seen a bunch of posts on TFP of your last project. You do great work.

Joe

The four stars behinds with a h not f. Just wanted to clarify b

 

[Aquaman7]

I only use laticrete 254 thinset for coping. If you try to chip coping it breaks before the thinset its super strong. I do either 1/4" gap or 3/8" depends on pavers used but 3/8 is best for curved pools. I grout with a bag using good type S mortar and joint roller to finish. When mud sets up slick off back flush to the rear of coping. I then do the pavers with a matching gap of the joint behind coping and finish with polysand on whole thing. After a few months I go back and clean it all blow it off them seal the pavers. I only use penetrating sealers the coping is a pain to do but worth it

Jimmy,
Do you fill the gap a.k.a. expansion joint behind the coping stone with polysand? I just want to make sure I understand so I don’t make a mistake.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Yup with polysand. Where in NJ are you I just noticed that? Also be aware most towns require a stamped drawing for approval on a pool. So wherever you get you panels from you gotta have them include drawings. Many people get held up by this especially in NJ. Digging the hole isnt easy either be careful you dont get a guy making a mess of things. Liner pools need precise digging a guy who digs pools isnt your run of the mill operator

 

[Aquaman7]

Yup with polysand. Where in NJ are you I just noticed that? Also be aware most towns require a stamped drawing for approval on a pool. So wherever you get you panels from you gotta have them include drawings. Many people get held up by this especially in NJ. Digging the hole isnt easy either be careful you dont get a guy making a mess of things. Liner pools need precise digging a guy who digs pools isnt your run of the mill operator

I’m in Paramus. Yes, I checked with the inspector and they require a stamp and signature from an engineer. I’m getting the pool kit from Royal swimming pools. As far as digging the hole my friend is an operator engineer. He’s been working with heavy machinery for 20+ years. I’ll be there helping/watching he doesn’t over dig. I wouldn’t take that part on. I know nothing about heavy machinery. I called a trucking company to remove the dirt from my yard. If I remember correctly two trucks, 700 p/ day, per truck +100 p/load. Should be 150 cubic yards. About 10 loads. Estimated total to remove dirt 2400. (If this doesn’t sound right I will have to go to my notes for the accurate numbers) I also have to rent an escavator.
I also going to call a few companies to see what price they give me to escavate and remove the dirt.
I’m going to be working on the plans during the next few days to apply for the permits.

 

[Aquaman7]

The pad would be inside edge of pool wall to just short of coping width in your case 10.5 " You want to be shy of the rear of coping and account for overhang. 5-6" thick and ideally it's one continuous pour. We drill thru the holes in panels where they connect and use rebar pieces to strengthen those spots. Need a copper bond wire jumper when you do the bond ring.
Not to sway you, but I wouldnt bother with the attempt to cast pavers or coping. You can never replicate the material used. The casting is very controlled with rubber forms and release agents and the concrete is very high strength like 6000+ psi and dry mixed then vibrated to form. It is SO much work to prep a proper base, then set and pour the coping base. You dont want to have to fudge every piece trying to make things level, and then when you install pavers and compact them they will crack. Its just not worth the effort. You can get decent quality stuff for cheap. Find a CST dealer near you and use their coping and pavers. The laticrete I referenced is 60 bucks a bag you will need several bags. CST coping is around 2 bucks a piece 2 pieces is a sqft. Average pool is 120 pieces coping. Just not worth the labor or effort to make stuff and then redo it or it fails. If I understand you ate planning to DIY this pool? If so I promise you by the time it comes to the decking you will be wondering what you got yourself into and sick of the pool build.

Jimmy,
Should I put a vapor barrier under the concrete ring. Maybe 6mm plastic?