electrical question

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todd_raleigh

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Oct 3, 2016
6
Vero Beach, FL
Hi. I hope I am posting this in the correct forum.

I am finishing the installation of solar panels and a Pentair SunTouch panel. I recently replaced my fixed 1hp pump with a Pentair Intelliflo VS pump.

There is an existing sub-panel dedicated to the pool pump and pool light - each with their own breaker. The pump is connected to a 240v breaker and the the pool light is connected to a 15amp 120v breaker. I am adding a third breaker for the Suntouch panel. That fills up the available slots in the sub-panel.

First question: I interpret the SunTouch installation manual that the SunTouch panel needs to be on a GFCB. I checked the breaker in the main panel and the breakers in the sub-panel thinking that the pump and light also needed to be on a GFCB. The breaker in the main panel and the two in the sub-panel are non-GFCB. Should I be concerned? I added a 15amp GFCB to the sub-panel for the SunTouch panel.

Second question: In the sub-panel, I noticed that all the connections on the ground bar (sans earth ground bonding) are stranded wire. I used solid wire from the sub-panel to the ground bar in the SunTouch panel. Is it okay that I used solid wire vs stranded?

Third question: The SunTouch installation manual states that the SunTouch power center must be bonded to earth ground. I could not find the earth ground pipe, so I ran an 8 AWG solid bare ground wire from the ground bar in the SunTouch panel to the earth ground wire that the pump is connected to (see picture). Is this okay? I believe I read somewhere that best practice is to connect each individual earth ground bonding wire directly to the earth ground pipe, but I have no idea where it is. I tried to trace the earth ground wires used on the pump and the pool light, but it went under a concrete slab and I couldn't follow it any further.

thanks!
earth ground bonding.jpg
 
Welcome to TFP!

You are confusing bonding wires with ground wires. They are not the same and shouldn't be interconnected or substituted for one another. Earth ground comes from your panel and connects with the power wires. The bonding wire connects between different parts of the pool but isn't grounded and doesn't go to the panel.
 
There should be a bonding lug on the outside of the Sun Touch panel box. That is where the bond wire goes. It's okay to use solid wire as long as the gauge is the same or larger than line wires. The pump and the light need to be on GFCI breakers although I've seen the light and power to the controller on the same Gucci breaker. Check your local codes
 
Thanks, everyone. I have some more clarifying questions which I will take one at a time.

I will call Pentair tomorrow because there is no bonding lug on the outside of the SunTouch panel box. The manual states "The SunTouch Power Center provides grounding screw terminals for grounding all equipment. All equipment including the SunTouch Power Center must be bonded to earth ground.". In another area of the manual it states "Connect a ground wire from the primary electrical panel to the SunTouch ground bus bar. Also ground eachpiece of high voltage (120 VAC or 240 VAC) equipment that is connected to the SunTouch Power Centerrelays. The SunTouch Power Center must also be connected to the pool bonding system using an 8 AWG(minimum) wire. An earth terminal for bonding is provided on the grounding bus bar inside the Power Center.".

I am not using relays, so nothing to do there. The sentences in red is where I thought the pool bonding is performed with the grounding bar.

So, I'm a bit confused, as stated, regarding the bonding and grounding.

Please tell me if the following is correct or incorrect: I have a solid ground wire from the breaker sub-panel ground bar to the Pentair panel ground bar. I also have a solid bare ground wire from the Pentair panel ground bar to the earth ground wire that connects to the Intelliflo pump (that's the picture from post #1).

Edit: The above in green is incorrect. I have the solid ground wire from the Pentair panel ground bar connected to the bonding wire of the pump. I will need to disconnect that tomorrow morning.

thanks!
 
Holy cow! The more I read the more I believe I have several electrical issues with my system. First of all, I bought the house with the pool a year ago. So most of this was here already.

First issue. It sounds like I need proper GFCB for the pump and pool light.
Second issue. I connected my Pentair panel ground bar to the pump bonding wire. I need to remove that.
Third issue. The pump bonding wire (8 AWG bare copper) goes under ground - through the dirt - and parallels conduit which appears to contain the bonding wire for the pool light. My guess is that both go to the pool to bond there as well? Do I have an issue with the pump bonding wire being in contact with earth?
Fourth issue. Do I need to connect my Pentair panel ground bar to earth ground? It appears that already happens because there is a connection from the Pentair panel ground bar to the sub-panel ground bar. I also believe that there is a link from the sub-panel ground bar to the main panel ground bar.

I think this is starting to come a bit more into focus.
 
So you have several concepts confused.

Equipotential Bonding is a process of connecting conductive surfaces so that their electrical potential is the same.

Grounding is providing a alternative current path.

Depending on when your pool was built it may user the pump to be on a GFCI protected curcuit. Generally pools built today require to have all electrical equipment on GFCI protected curcuits. Low voltage lights do not require a GFCI.

It's fine your bond wire runs in the soil, that's normal. The industry differs as to whether you automation panel or sub panel should be bonded. If it's remote from the pool most don't bond.

Don't worry about ground rods, just be sure your ground wires connect to the grounding bus bar that connects to the single bus bar in the main panel.
 
Thanks, gwegan!

The electrical sub-panel, pump, and automation panel are about 15-20 feet from the pool. I just finished watching some videos. I feel much better. I already removed the 8 AWG solid copper wire connecting the automation panel ground bar to the pump bonding wire. It makes sense that there is no bonding for the automation panel. So, I'm good to go. The pool was installed around 1993. That explains why the CBs are not GFI. Do you think it would be a safe thing to swap those non-GFCB with GFCB?

best. Todd.
 
todd_raleigh said:
Thanks, gwegan!

The electrical sub-panel, pump, and automation panel are about 15-20 feet from the pool. I just finished watching some videos. I feel much better. I already removed the 8 AWG solid copper wire connecting the automation panel ground bar to the pump bonding wire. It makes sense that there is no bonding for the automation panel. So, I'm good to go. The pool was installed around 1993. That explains why the CBs are not GFI. Do you think it would be a safe thing to swap those non-GFCB with GFCB?

best. Todd.
Click to expand...

It won't hurt but could be very expensive and you could end up with false trips. There is really nothing to be gained by changing the breakers to GFCB

If your pool light is run from a transformer (low voltage) vs direct with 110V/220V then a GFCB breaker is not required.
 

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I would put the pump on a GFCI breaker. While it technically may be grandfathered in and not require a GFCI its best to have all outdoor appliances on a GFCI.


Some high end vs pumps require special GFCI breakers. Most pumps work fine with GFCI breakers.

I would install a GFCI outlet and run lights and convince plugs downstream from the outlet. Why not a GFCI breaker for convenience plugs and 120 lights? Two reasons. The new GFCI s are self testing and probably more reliable than breaker based GFCIs and in the event of a trip they are more obvious to reset.

Fill out the signature and describe your equipment, especially the pump.
 
Two months ago I replaced a Sta-Rite 1hp fixed speed pump (Marathon) with a Pentair Intelliflo VS pump. I did not replace the dedicated dual pole standard breaker in the sub-panel. Based upon the feedback, I should go ahead and replace it with a GFCB. I will also swap out the dedicated 15amp standard breaker for the pool light with a GFCB as well. That way everything is on a GFCB. Safety first!
 
So if you read the installation manual for your pump, you will find burred on page 3 a note that Pentair makes breakers for these pumps. Hmmm why is that ---- well sometimes the pump's motor control and many GFCI breakers don't seem to get along.

The manual is here: http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/IntelliFloVSOM.pdf

The Pentair CB is here: Amazon.com : Pentair PA220GF 2-Pole GFCI Circuit Breakers, 20-Ampere : Swimming Pool Safety Products : Patio, Lawn Garden

The breakers are made by Siemens
 
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