Draw Schedule- Would you pay?

[katiejean13]

In the middle of a in ground pool build. They quoted us 8-9 months from signing, with 3 months due to others being in front of us and permitting. Seems to be moving on the right pace so far. We have a shell, plumbing, and pregrade complete, with some tile and coping work in progress.

Our draw schedule is as follows:
10% down
30% Excavation: Due the day of excavation.
25% Pool Shell: Due the day of concrete/shell application
30% Plumbing/Equipment Set: Due once pregrade, plumbing, footer/retaining wall form is complete and pump/filter are set.
5% Prior to Plaster: Due prior to interior finish being scheduled.

We received an invoice for the plumbing draw a couple weeks ago. Most of those items have been completed BUT there is no pool equipment and the pump/filter have not been set.

When we replied and called to tell them the full list of items for the draw weren’t complete, they said we could hold back $4k until the equipment is set… we have reiterated a couple times that we are going to wait to pay the full amount until all the items are complete, per contract. But I’m worried us being “overdue” in their eyes will delay the build.
Would you pay the 30% minus $4k?

My thought is that if they wanted to be paid for each little item that’s completed, they should have spelled it out in $5k increments, we didn’t dictate the schedule, so we are wanting to stick to the schedule they defined.

 

[TampaKathy]

Without knowing dollar amounts it's hard to say for sure but if they disappear and you have to pay someone else to finish, will $4k and 5% be enough? If so, then I would pay. If not, tell them what amount you are comfortable with.

 

[Ahultin]

Coming from someone who is dealing with the negative implications of paying too much upfront and fighting since beginning of the year to try to get done, hindsight I would have held more. The equipment in my case was well over 10k so 4k would be a joke

 

[katiejean13]

Without knowing dollar amounts it's hard to say for sure but if they disappear and you have to pay someone else to finish, will $4k and 5% be enough? If so, then I would pay. If not, tell them what amount you are comfortable with.

We’re talking about 100k pool, so they’re wanting 26k vs 30k. So we would have less than 10k remaining, no equipment, 1600sq ft of pavers delivered but not installed, no electrical, no plaster. Don’t think 10k will cover it, but if equipment were here, we would have 5k left and in same spot.

 

[PoolBrews]

My concern here would be that if you don't pay, you may get moved back in the queue for ongoing work. They most likely have a number of builds in process, and those that pay per their schedule will get priority (9 times out of 10). I would really like to see a PB with a draw that actually leaves a good amount for AFTER pool startup, but I've never seen a PB that offers that. We made our final payment after the interior was completed, but before actual startup - per contract.

The time to get any changes in the draw amounts is before you sign a contract. In my mind $4k for a $100K pool is not that big a deal - as long as work is progressing as expected, and you are happy so far, I would pay the draw. If things aren't going well it would be a different story.

 

[Newdude]

as long as work is progressing as expected, and you are happy so far, I would pay the draw. If things aren't going well it would be a different story.

There is that, too. If the build is going well with the last few stages, you'd have no reason for extra concern for the next payment, with each future payment hinging on the quality/timeliness of the last.

 

[darkrider]

Their payment schedule is aggressive to say the least. Especially, since it doesn't consider decking, tile, etc. It also is assuming 100% payment before scheduling plaster! What about punch list items or things you're not happy with? If they're reputable, they likely won't ghost or take advantage, but still the payment schedule puts you at their mercy. Personally, I'd want to see equipment on site before I pay the 30% draw.

 

[katiejean13]

My concern here would be that if you don't pay, you may get moved back in the queue for ongoing work. They most likely have a number of builds in process, and those that pay per their schedule will get priority (9 times out of 10). I would really like to see a PB with a draw that actually leaves a good amount for AFTER pool startup, but I've never seen a PB that offers that. We made our final payment after the interior was completed, but before actual startup - per contract.

The time to get any changes in the draw amounts is before you sign a contract. In my mind $4k for a $100K pool is not that big a deal - as long as work is progressing as expected, and you are happy so far, I would pay the draw. If things aren't going well it would be a different story.

Right- to apply that to their side, the time to require us to pay $26k after plumbing would be at contract, not adjusting the draw amount after one element of the draw is Not yet completed. We want to stick to the terms of the contract, even though we know we are still out a lot of $ before the full project is finished.

 

[Ahultin]

As i read it, you stated that per your contract, the equipment should be there prior to this next draw. You are not asking them to modify their draw schedule, you are asking them to perform per their contract. In my case the timeliness of equipment drop was not specified which was my bad.

 

[Cena_sea]

I believe they are changing the terms, not you. I’d wait for the equipment specified to be set. Your total equipment is greater than 4k. At the least I’d want to hold back much more than that amount.

Is the coping and tile done? I wouldn’t make such a large payment until it was completed too.

Edit: We offered to pay for equipment after it was delivered but was told no, not until it was installed which took 2-3 weeks after it arrived. Ours was vague but yours is pretty clear on the terms.

 

[katiejean13]

Well, we decided to pay the draw, after looking up the price of the pump and filter. If the pump/filter was delivered, we would be paying anyways and the status of the pool would be basically the same...

We gave them the check Friday... Today, we get an email saying that the cost of labor and materials has gone up 24%, the PB is absorbing 9% of the cost, and they will be charging us 15% ($15k!!!) additional. We did sign something that gave them the ability to pass on added costs to us, but had no idea it would be this large. The contract also says if we don't agree, they would refund us the remaining amount (now $9k)... but then we'd be left with an unfinished pool and $9k. We are pretty ****** to say the least. Now we understand why they wanted our $26k check so bad.

Part of the reason we went with this PB was that they were about 9% lower than our other choice. They had good reviews and we liked them, even though their timeline was about 3 months longer than the other option. Now it looks like we should have gone with the other, at less cost and would have been done by now!! It seems the longer timeline has now just given time for costs to go through the roof!

I don't think we have any recourse here, but seems a little shady to make us come up with $15k within a month before they can finish the pool.

 

[Newdude]

I don't think we have any recourse here, but seems a little shady to make us come up with $15k within a month before they can finish the pool.

Reread the contract. Mine had similar protection for the PB but was based on invoices, basically making them prove the increases. If they are legit, it is what it is and it's not the PBs fault.

I mean. It IS their fault it took so long and things are pricier now, but that's another discussion.

 

[Mcow]

The draw schedule for pools is so front end loaded. It is really frustrating and unfortunately seems to be an "industry standard" half way through you have paid like 75% of the build and they want the final draw the day of plaster so you are basically at the PB mercy on finishing up any punch list items. We are in a similar situation only have about 8k left of draws and no equipment and no plaster. Decking material is on-site but not installed. I know the plaster alone is at least $8k. I feel like there is little motivation to do the few steps because we have already paid for over 90% of the pool. This is the second pool we have built and same situation both times but first pool was built in 3 months so there was not a huge lag. We are on month 7 for our current pool. I actually just found out last week that the PB will not be able to get the controller for an undetermined amount of time. So now I want to hold back the cost of the controller on the final draw but worried it will not be a big enough of a deal for the PB to ever come out and install this so I am guessing I will have to handle it on my own later. Luckily our contract does not have an escalation clause but I think that is part of the problem they are stuck with their bid and this is causing delays. We just built a new house and the draw schedule for that was itemized and paid out once each phase was complete so we never felt upside down. Very frustrating to say the least.

 

[darkrider]

Let me make sure I understand. They're charging you an increase on the cost of the labor and materials already completed?!?

 

[katiejean13]

After reviewing your account there is a 23.6% price increase (all accounts are being reviewed). Lumber, steel, plastic, coping, pavers, tile, aluminum, electric work have all increased drastically.

They are “absorbing”8.6% and passing on 15%… we have asked for an itemized review showing the actual cost increase for what they’ve paid for our project. The only remaining work for us is equipment, paver install, plaster, and electric/plumbing hookup. We want to make sure they aren’t applying TODAY’s higher prices to our project. If they’ve already paid for things, then the current prices need not apply. The travertine is delivered and should have been ordered in Sept, so I don’t see how the price increase applies to the full amount

 

[katiejean13]

Reread the contract. Mine had similar protection for the PB but was based on invoices, basically making them prove the increases. If they are legit, it is what it is and it's not the PBs fault.

I mean. It IS their fault it took so long and things are pricier now, but that's another discussion.

Agreed. The timeline doesn’t help, and we don’t have a problem paying more if they in fact are out that money. Even would be willing to ensure they receive their X% in profits. But don’t want them to arbitrarily add todays added expense to things that are already finished. The gunite has been done since February, so don’t see how there were cost increases there