Do I need a variable speed pump?

[Lykly]

Water level is usually set to be half way up in the skimmer inlet. If there is an overflow drain that may make the level different. After the pump primes, do you bleed the air from the filter?

Yes, I do open the bleeder valve until the air is gone after pump primes.


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[Lykly]

If you had a blockage, normally you would see air entering the pump basket.



That may be too drastic but you will probably need to play around with the returns to get the correct water circulation so the skimmers can do their job. No circulation is just as bad as too much.


If you have any spare ping pong balls that you can throw in the water, that helps to observe how things are moving around the pool.

But because of all the contradictions, it is very difficult to tell if you have an issue or not.

Thank you, I will get some ping-pong balls today and adjust the returns until the ping-pong balls flow in the right direction, thanks for the advice. It sounds like possibly my water level is a bit low as the water is not halfway up the skimmer's, it's probably maybe one quarter at best. I really appreciate all the replies, thank you all very much.


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[mas985]

If the water level was too low, the pump would be sucking air and you would see air in the pump basket.

 

[Lykly]

10-4, I think the test I did last night showed the water feed is sufficient. I was just wondering if the water level being higher working in conjunction with the deury(sp) door at the skimmer would provide better circulation into the skimmer for surface debris? Maybe Water level makes no difference for this.


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[mas985]

Actually, the lower the water level in the skimmer, the faster water will move into the skimmer. Smaller area = higher surface water velocity

You just don't want it so low that the skimmer starts sucking air.

 

[Lykly]

Well I shut my pump off when I went to work this morning so I would see if It would prime when I come home tonight. Turned it back on ran for 30 minutes did not prime. I don't know what to think I have a bad pump or what. Pretty discouraged actually. Last thing I want is a new plaster job and have to mess with a pump.


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[mas985]

First off, a pump should not loose prime when shut off. Air is getting into the suction side plumbing somewhere. Pump basket lid, a likely source, or somewhere else.

Also, a pump won't prime if there is any blockage in the suction lines.

Just for kicks, you might try back flushing the suction line from the pump toward each skimmer (one on & one off, md off) using a garden hose wrapped with a wet rag to seal it and see if any debris comes out the skimmer.

 

[Lykly]

Thank you, I will try that and let you know what happens.


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[Lykly]

Well I came home tonight and I can't blow out my skim lines because there are no unions everything is PVC glued together. I took the lid off my second pump and put it on my circulation pump, made no difference, still will not prime after 20 minutes. I can hardly believe all the lines are plugged because I changed the valves to pull from the main drain, and each skimmer, nothing will prime. I find it hard to believe since it was pumping prior all three lines are plugged. Unless all three lines became plugged and both O-rings and lids on both baskets both are bad it doesn't leave much besides the pump. I'm going to let it run all night long, if it burns up so be it I guess. I'm about ready just to call a pool company out here. Obviously something I can't figure out.


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[WASP]

Put the hose in the pump suction pipe by going through the strainer opening.

 

[Lykly]

Put the hose in the pump suction pipe by going through the strainer opening.

Thanks WASP, can't believe I did not think of that. I'll try that later when I get back near the pool. Is there supposed to be a check valve in the system? I can't find one. Or, is it supposed be sealed to the point where the water does not drain back to the pool? After it sits the basket definitely goes empty.


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[mas985]

As I mentioned before, no water should ever drain out of the pump basket while it is off. This means you have an air leak somewhere and could be the reason the pump does not prime too. Put some pool lube (silicon grease) on the pump lid gasket and drain plugs and see if that solves the problem.

 

[Lykly]

As I mentioned before, no water should ever drain out of the pump basket while it is off. This means you have an air leak somewhere and could be the reason the pump does not prime too. Put some pool lube (silicon grease) on the pump lid gasket and drain plugs and see if that solves the problem.

Thank you, I will stop by the pool store on the way home and see if I can't actually get some new O-rings in addition to what you suggested. I sure hope the leak is somewhere external and not subsurface.


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[Lykly]

OK.... I replaced the O-rings and lubed everything up. It seems everything pulls but the south side skimmer is full of air. I can change the valve around from the main drain or the north Skimmer, no air in the basket but if I pull from the south skimmer it's has lots of air. If the pump is primed it still pulls but has lots of air and no pressure shows up on my filter. When every other suction line is isolated it shows 5 pounds PSI on my filter. The suction in both skimmers when I isolate them to the pump is very strong, but the one pulls air, I am concerned about a leaky suction pipe from the south side skimmer. It is the same valve that controls whichever skimmer I pull from so I don't think it's the valve. In my mind, since that's the only suction that gets air, is there any other thing that could be except a leaky suction pipe to that skimmer? I should add that I had all valves open and circulated the pool for a couple days straight and did not notice any loss of water.


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[mas985]

When pulling from that skimmer that draws air, look inside the skimmer and make sure there isn't a vortex forming causing the air to get sucked in. As mentioned earlier, if the water level is too low, a vortex can form drawing in air. But if there is no vortex, then you might have an air leak in the line somewhere.

 

[Lykly]

No vortex, i'm afraid there must be a leak in the line. Lots of air and the pressure on the filter goes to zero. Any other line I pull from, even a combination of, is air free and pressure stays at 5 psi. When I put my hand on the suction on the skimmer that gets air it has tremendous suction at the bottom. I would think that if it had much of a leak it should lose some suction? It must be minor as I am not losing any noticeable water level either. Good news is when I bought this house recently I have a 1 yr warranty, I called the warranty company, and they said my plumbing on pool is covered with a $60 deductible. They are sending over their contracted service Company tomorrow. Maybe they will find something simple, my fingers are crossed.


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[Lykly]

OK here is a update. I had a few various bad connections at my pump which were allowing some air into the pump to lose prime. Fixed them and put in a couple unions to make it easier to access in the future and although I still see a few small bubbles coming from somewhere it is pretty much holding prime. I am still working on solving it but that part is way better. As for the one skimmer line pulling all that air I think I may have it figured out. While I have the pump primed and everything shut off... And the valves set in all positions I really don't get any more air coming in, which tells me hopefully there is no underground leak. I would think with everything full of water the pump shut off and the valves in any position, no air enters the system. The mystery is when I pull from that skimmer line only it still shows a lot of air but I think this is how it is happening:

I think there could possibly be some kind of plug in the line, and when I pull from that skimmer it is actually is pulling air back from my filter, which would explain why the filter pressure immediately goes to zero when I put the valve in that position. I think since it can't pull all the water it needs from that skimmer suction, it is pulling some air out of the filter or discharge line from the filter. Does that make sense? Seems to me if there was a leak in that skimmer line I should see some air coming up from it when the valves open to it while the pump is off, and I don't. I have a pool service company coming next week with a air compressor that will hook a fitting into the line and pressure it up and see if we can blow something out. I had them out here for two hours today replumbing things, my deductible was $60 which will include the air pressure test. I figured since it will cost nothing more I may as well have them do it. I thought of the scenario about that line being plugged and pulling air from the filter, and the service person said that could be what's happening but I thought I would throw it by you guys. Sorry for the super long post.


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[mas985]

I think there could possibly be some kind of plug in the line, and when I pull from that skimmer it is actually is pulling air back from my filter, which would explain why the filter pressure immediately goes to zero when I put the valve in that position. I think since it can't pull all the water it needs from that skimmer suction, it is pulling some air out of the filter or discharge line from the filter. Does that make sense?

No. The skimmer is usually not plumbed to the return lines unless you have a venturi skimmer which I doubt.

Seems to me if there was a leak in that skimmer line I should see some air coming up from it when the valves open to it while the pump is off, and I don't.

Not necessarily. If the break in the line is at or below water level, when the pump is off, water will leak out but when the pump is on, air gets sucked in. This has to do with the differential pressure in the line when the pump is on vs off.

But the air pressure test should reveal any leaks.

 

[Lykly]

So, from what you explain, and it makes sense, the only possible way I am getting air in the skimmer suction line has to be from a leak, there is no other possibility.


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[Lykly]

What's worse, it sounds like it is below the water level......


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