DIY Replacment Vinyl Liner - repairs req'd

[Cathy9887]

OK, so since we couldn't find ANYONE to install our replacement liner for us, we decided to jump in & do it ourselves. We knew it wasn't going to be a Cakewalk, but after some deeper Googling & reading, I'm second guessing everything.

Steel walls are rusty.. I pretty much expected that.. and @Nashvillejoe has great documentation of repairing his, so I think we can manage that. The one question I have about that is the Liquid Rubber - which type should we use? There are several.

The poolcrete bottom appeared to be in pretty good condition... there were lots of "hills & valleys" - how can we level those? Should we even bother?

Then there's the crack(s). When we pulled the liner back to where the dropoff to the deep end begins, we discovered an ugly, deep, rough edged crack. We'd never ever felt a crack like that before... I'm thinking it happened just this winter. Unless you guys think it could have been there & we just never noticed/saw it. We have a PoolCrete floor, but can't find vermiculite anywhere. I know we'll have to use something different, but I'm a bit concerned about it not bonding well to the pool Crete. Is there a specific recommended product we can purchase (at a pool store or Home Depot/Lowes/Menards/etc), or an ideal mix of ingredients that seems to work best?

Since the deep end side of the crack is approx 3/4" - 1.0" higher than the shallow end side of the crack, should we try sanding down the high side? Or just fill in the crack & smooth out the slope really well?

There's also a thinner crack that runs perpendicular to the big deep crack. It starts near the center of the crack & heads down into the deep end. We have not taken the deep end Vinyl out yet, so we have no idea what the condition of the hopper & walls are... I'm nervous.

We're hoping all of you TFP experts (& skilled rookies!!) will have some sound advice for us... **fingers crossed**

Thank you!!!
Cathy

 

[Nashvillejoe]

Okay Cathie….
1… Liquid Rubber home restoration….. good product - the pool stuff is over priced-
2. grind the sides with an angle grinder - get a few of the pads you will go through them quick….. ask long as you get most of the rust off… you will be left with a surface thats pock marked ….. like a bad case of the measels…. Thats why the rubber coating
3…. It that first coat pretty heavy- that will prep most of the wall- then hit it With a second coat…. if you do it on a warm day- by the time you get that first coat on- you will be ready to put on a second- i did 3 coats…. Gives you a nice even wall
4….. i used pool foam but whether you do or not…. Get a pole sander and drywall screen- can use that to knock off all of the imperfections on the wall- pieces of sand or debris that got caught while the rubber was rolling on….. at this point you should have a pretty smooth wall for either the foam or the line (i definitely ately encourage the foam…. 2 rolls should be enough to do sides and bottom)

 

[ajw22]

Let's see if @jimmythegreek is around to comment about the materials and process for filling the crack in the floor.

 

[Nashvillejoe]

OK, so since we couldn't find ANYONE to install our replacement liner for us, we decided to jump in & do it ourselves. We knew it wasn't going to be a Cakewalk, but after some deeper Googling & reading, I'm second guessing everything.

Steel walls are rusty.. I pretty much expected that.. and @Nashvillejoe has great documentation of repairing his, so I think we can manage that. The one question I have about that is the Liquid Rubber - which type should we use? There are several.

The poolcrete bottom appeared to be in pretty good condition... there were lots of "hills & valleys" - how can we level those? Should we even bother?

Then there's the crack(s). When we pulled the liner back to where the dropoff to the deep end begins, we discovered an ugly, deep, rough edged crack. We'd never ever felt a crack like that before... I'm thinking it happened just this winter. Unless you guys think it could have been there & we just never noticed/saw it. We have a PoolCrete floor, but can't find vermiculite anywhere. I know we'll have to use something different, but I'm a bit concerned about it not bonding well to the pool Crete. Is there a specific recommended product we can purchase (at a pool store or Home Depot/Lowes/Menards/etc), or an ideal mix of ingredients that seems to work best?

Since the deep end side of the crack is approx 3/4" - 1.0" higher than the shallow end side of the crack, should we try sanding down the high side? Or just fill in the crack & smooth out the slope really well?

There's also a thinner crack that runs perpendicular to the big deep crack. It starts near the center of the crack & heads down into the deep end. We have not taken the deep end Vinyl out yet, so we have no idea what the condition of the hopper & walls are... I'm nervous.

We're hoping all of you TFP experts (& skilled rookies!!) will have some sound advice for us... **fingers crossed**

Thank you!!!
Cathy

Okay now for The cracks……

by the way……. Your walls look very similar to mine when i pulled that liner down!!!

by the time you finish the walls you are going to be pretty good with the grinder-
1…take a couple pieces of painters tape and go about 1/2 “ on either side of the cracks….. the wider the better!!!
2….take your grinder and with a cement grinder piece…. Grind a 1” channel where the crack used to be…. Standard for all cement foundations to settle and crack….. so cut yourself a channel 1 “ deep and 1” wide along the entire crack…. Hire a handy man if you don’t want to do it…. But its super easy you just have to pay attention and work slowly…..
3…. Take that wet cement/mortar mix i referenced and mix up a small batch….. then trowl it into the channel and let it set up….. if you really wanna make those cracks dissappear….. make the channel 2“ wide……. The wider the better……. You could use some prep for better adhesion….. but considering the weight of water-if you get it smooth and packed in good- you won’t have an worries….. you pool has already settled- you are repairing cracks of a settled concrete pour…. The compacted ground should be very stable at this point….
4…. Once the cement has a chance to set- i would give it 48 hours to cure….. paint the entire pool bottom with that liquid rubber that will give you a extra layer between your repair and all that water….
5. When you set in your bottom drains and your skimmmer - use that liquid seal product between the wall and the gasket ….. on my pool you would tell where the water was leaking into the pool area…. And it was the gaskets by the skimmer and one of the returns….. so when i redid my pool i put some of that liquid seal under my gaskets…. Which should give you an extra layer of protection

 

[Cathy9887]

Okay now for The cracks……
by the time you finish the walls you are going to be pretty good with the grinder-
1…take a couple pieces of painters tape and go about 1/2 “ on either side of the cracks…..
2….take your grinder and with a cement grinder piece…. Grind a 1” channel where the crack used to be…. Standard for all cement foundations to settle and crack….. so cut yourself a channel 1 “ deep and 1” wide along the entire crack…. Hire a handy man if you don’t want to do it…. But its super easy you just have to pay attention and work slowly…..
3…. Take that wet cement/mortar mix i reverenced and mix up some….. then trowl it into the channel and let it set up….. if you really wanna make those cracks dissappear….. make the channel 2“ wide…….
4…. Once the cement has a chance to set- i would give it 48 hours to cure….. paint the entire pool bottom with that liquid rubber that will give you a extra layer between your repair and all that water….
5. When you set in your bottom drains and your skimmmer - use that liquid seal product between the wall and the gasket ….. on my pool you would tell where the water was leaking into the pool area…. And it was the gaskets by the skimmer and one of the returns….. so when i redid my pool i put some of that liquid seal under my gaskets…. Which should give you an extra layer of protection

I found the Liquid Rubber you used.. but found this locally. I know its an "As Seen On TV" product, which makes me fear its a gimmick. But maybe you looked into it & went with the other product for a valid reason, so I thought I'd ask...

FLEX SEAL FAMILY OF PRODUCTS Flex Seal Liquid Black 32 Oz. Liquid Rubber Sealant Coating LFSBLKR32 - The Home Depot

Flex Seal Liquid is actually liquid rubberized coating in a can. Similar to our Flex Seal Spray, but now you can brush it, roll it, dip it or pour it anywhere you need a watertight, flexible coating or

www.homedepot.com

 

[Nashvillejoe]

I found the Liquid Rubber you used.. but found this locally. I know its an "As Seen On TV" product, which makes me fear its a gimmick. But maybe you looked into it & went with the other product for a valid reason, so I thought I'd ask...

i love that product (it works great)…… i didn’t use it for the sides but thats the product i used around my seals- they have it at lowes in a caulking tube……. I know the liquid rubber isn’t cheap - but its really great and goes on smooth….. i am sure there are competing products….. but i have built a couple of homes and that stuff works great on CMU blocks- you want a foundational rubber- its used for waterproofing foundations….. so its a pretty well tested and researched product….. i got it through amazon

 

[Nashvillejoe]

One other piece that will settle your mind…… when i did my first refurbishing in 2013….. i bought vermiculite and resurfaced the entire floor of the pool…. My pool was originally done with Portland cement….. which is essentially a mortar….. no issues with the bonding 10 years later…… so i would be comfy that Portland cement….. or a high quality mortar would bond to the vermiculite - just as my vermiculite bonded to the mortar bed…..

vermiculite is a cement with polymers that allow water to come in and out of the pool foundation…. Used often in areas with high percentage of clay soil and high water tables…. Since you are doing repairs… the water can still move freely through 99% of your pool area….. and the 1% that are repairs will be fine as long as you use something that is designed for a wet area….. hence the wet cement … that i suggested from lowes/Home Depot….. hope that helps ease your mind regarding the cracks …… its really not a big deal. Just grind em up and move on

 

[kimkats]

I am to watch and you on!!! Thanks to @Nashvillejoe for stepping up and helping out!!

 

[Newdude]

(We MOST certainly are )

Good Luck !!!

 

[jimmythegreek]

You can use anything for patching the cracks. Liquid bonding agent in a 1 gallon bottle will make anything sticky. Open up the cracks and widen them out and feather in your choice of mortar but don't use concrete it contains stone

 

[Cathy9887]

Day 1 - Removed the liner & started sanding...

 

[Cathy9887]

Day 2... painting on a galvanized rust stop. We used a Rustoleum chain link fence thing from Home Depot, because the other stuff we ordered (& paid a rush fee for!) never showed up... so, it was the best we could find at Home Depot. :-/

 

[Cathy9887]

Day 3.. today's tasks include slapping the liquid rubber onto the walls, and patching the floor. This liquid rubber stuff stinks!! Blech!

It's 91° here today, so not quite as pleasant as the last 2 days, BUT... the humidity is almost non-existent... at least for St Louis.. so, even at 91°, its still tolerable. We're running thin on energy though.. pretty sure we started out the day at about 40% of the energy we had on Day 1. LOL.

Fingers crossed.. we hope to install the liner tomorrow.

 

[Cathy9887]

Would there be any harm in using a little bit of the liquid rubber on the pool Crete floor to fill in little tiny marks? Like, where our son dragged his seat instead of picking it up... **facepalm** or where the shop vac full of water was rolled on the floor instead of picked up... **facepalm** The crack fixing stuff we're using doesn't spread as nicely as we expected. Maybe we've got it too thick?? Would adding a little extra water to it help? Or would that compromise its properties too much??

 

[kimkats]

You are MOVING!!! I am sorry to say I really don't know if that stuff would work on that but you should be able to tell by what is going on with it on the wall. Feel that and see if you think it would "feather out or smooth" enough for the floor. *facepalm* for sure sigh......

 

[Nashvillejoe]

Wow….. can I say I am really proud - first of all that u jumped in and took that bad boy by the horn!!!!

Second - amazed u used a palm sander instead of a grinder - gonna have to do multiple coats of rubber -

Third - I used that rust oleum product first time I did it - probably redundant to us it with the liquid rubber - but won’t hurt a bit

Fourth - if u use a roll of the foam on the walls and one on the floor - you won’t see any of that stuff on the floor - if there are divers - get some pre mix mortar and slather it over there and feather into the bulk of floor

Finally - if u roll the floor roll the entire floor - foam will be easier though !!!

I love love love that u guys are hammering through it !!!!

 

[Nashvillejoe]

This video helped me a ton with the foam and the replacement gaskets!!

 

[jimmythegreek]

My 2 cents....never use foam on the floor of a pool. If you ever get liner float from heavy rains the wrinkles will never come out. You can use any powder portland content product to skim coat with. You can leave it dry and lay liner over it. Will harden on it's own. We use pure Portland for pick marks or hair cracks before liner goes in

 

[Cathy9887]

Gotta work the wrinkles out & start the vacuum ...

I can't thank you all enough for all your help & input & encouragement. It really helped us get over the hump of insecurities.

 

[kimkats]

If you don't get done before the sun goes down STOP. It is oh so much easier the work when it is warm from the sun.