Dig starts Tuesday 6/16/20

luma7

Gold Supporter
Jun 3, 2020
100
Baldwin County, AL
Let me understand the problem better? Is it just too deep, or is the transition too fast? I don't understand...but I do love me a deep pool.

Maddie
The transition to the deep end started about 3' too soon which caused the area at my seating ledge to be in water 6' deep. It should have been 4' deep. So the issue is depth and transition location.
 

bdavis466

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
Aug 4, 2014
5,529
San Clemente, CA
I'm sure you are right. Unfortunately, the gunite contractor told the guy coordinating my project that 22" of gunite was too thick. So my PB says he is following instructions.
That's far from true. Benches and seats against walls are often solid gunite. The wall is 8" and the seat is 16-18" which is over 22" total.... and that's on a vertical surface where gravity is fighting.

Sounds like the gunite guy gets paid by the job and not the yard. Around here it's by the yard and the contractors will fill the entire pool to the top if you ask them to.
 

luma7

Gold Supporter
Jun 3, 2020
100
Baldwin County, AL
That's far from true. Benches and seats against walls are often solid gunite. The wall is 8" and the seat is 16-18" which is over 22" total.... and that's on a vertical surface where gravity is fighting.

Sounds like the gunite guy gets paid by the job and not the yard. Around here it's by the yard and the contractors will fill the entire pool to the top if you ask them to.
These are great points. I will ask the contractor about them tomorrow. Thank you, very much!
 

luma7

Gold Supporter
Jun 3, 2020
100
Baldwin County, AL
Trees on the west side of the property were cut down yesterday, stumps ground out today. This allowed the pool contractor free access to power. Previously, a tree and large root was between the pool and the power supply. It also got rid of trees that shed all kinds of debris and leaves that were 2' long.

Travertine delivered today.

It rained most of the day and the water collected in the deep end...

It is supposed to rain on and off all week and into next week. We'll see how progress goes based on weather.
 

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luma7

Gold Supporter
Jun 3, 2020
100
Baldwin County, AL
So it turns out the really fantastic team we worked with the first day were subs. Yesterday, actual employees of our PB came out and we were less than impressed. We live in an area with red clay and when it has rained for 2 days straight, it is a mushy mess. You would think anyone who lives here would know that.

A few guys came out with bags of river rock and transferred it to white bags. They dropped a sump pump in the deep end of the pool and climbed down in there expecting to be able to use these bags of rock to change the pool elevation. Instead, one guy almost lost his boot because he sunk down to mid calf in the clay. They got out and left. Haven't heard back from the manager about whether we passed inspection but we finally have a sign in the yard showing we have a permit.

I'm just taking slow, deep breaths and imagining when it will be all over...
 

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luma7

Gold Supporter
Jun 3, 2020
100
Baldwin County, AL
Yeah, they
sigh...............really?? Really guys??? THEN you walk away with out finishing?? I have a sad for you :(
Yeah, they just seemed flummoxed. I really wanted to ask the subs to come back. They knew what they were doing.

Last night, the hose from the sump pump to the drain area fell back into the pool. I called the PB and didn't get a call back. Today I called and said we were happy to run and monitor it if they brought out a longer hose. Today was the first day of no rain and they didn't have anyone out at all. The plan is to send a crew out tomorrow to finish the elevation change.

They may have someone come out tonight and pull the hose out so some of the water can get pumped out. I hope so.

Pictures of the rebar work attached. It just looks messy right now.
 

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luma7

Gold Supporter
Jun 3, 2020
100
Baldwin County, AL
3-4 PB employees sort of worked today. They mainly spent time on their phones and on break. We were told bags of rock would be used to adjust the elevation; however, they greatly misjudged the number of bags and fill they would need. There were at least 3 trips to the store for more supplies today. Additionally, after the first 30 or so bags of rock they switched to bagging up the dirt/clay the excavator had pulled out the hole. Still aren't done. So today and yesterday, the only two days without rain, we had no work and so-so work and it is scheduled to rain all week next week.

I asked (again) about just having them gunite even though it is more than 2' of an adjustment. I pointed out that the steps would be deeper than 2' (thanks, @bdavis466 for the suggestion). I was told steps and shelves are okay deep but the gunite crew will not make the entire depth profile that deep. Their max for the pool floor gunite is 18".

On a separate note, I picked up a Ditch Witch today and we will be running a 400' trench from the road to the house to bring in city water next week.

Ya'll have a good weekend.
 

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bdavis466

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
Aug 4, 2014
5,529
San Clemente, CA
If that was my pool I would stop the project. No way that would fly...

You should insist the building inspector does another pre-gunite inspection if they are allowed to continue with the bags.

Have the gunite crew shoot 12", then have them come back the next day to add rebar and another 12".
 

luma7

Gold Supporter
Jun 3, 2020
100
Baldwin County, AL
If that was my pool I would stop the project. No way that would fly...

You should insist the building inspector does another pre-gunite inspection if they are allowed to continue with the bags.

Have the gunite crew shoot 12", then have them come back the next day to add rebar and another 12".
Thanks, I would really love that! The problem is it appears the only thing our inspector checks is the plumbing. I'm in Alabama, in the county, not inside any city limits. It's pretty much the wild wild west... But in the south! I've questioned the PB several times and they keep telling me that this is an acceptable build and that they have warrantied the shell for life. Or at least my lifetime. I guess I can call the county and ask if there was some sort of structural inspection that they can do?
 

bdavis466

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
Aug 4, 2014
5,529
San Clemente, CA
Don't fall for that lifetime guarantee garbage... what does that even mean?

Do it right the first time because you'll be on your own the second time.

This is your pool and your money. You have the control. There are about 10 posts a day on here from people with major structural issues after just a year or two....
 

Rich D

Bronze Supporter
Aug 3, 2018
897
MA
after the first 30 or so bags of rock they switched to bagging up the dirt/clay the excavator had pulled out the hole.
So.... Can the PB explain why they were using bags of rock, then because they can't do a easy estimate of rock quantity and are are sick of going back to the rock store (obviously taking away from face book time) all of a sudden bags of mud will work just fine on your $80,000 investment. This speaks volumes of your pool builders quality control and over all quality of work. Don't let them bully you into something you will have to live with while they are out spending your money.

I can only imagine what that shell leak guarantee would entail. If they end up doing anything I would imagine they would send out a guy with some hydraulic cement a few times a year to put a big ugly patch in your once beautiful pool...
 
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luma7

Gold Supporter
Jun 3, 2020
100
Baldwin County, AL
So.... Can the PB explain why they were using bags of rock...all of a sudden bags of mud will work just fine...

I can only imagine what that shell leak guarantee would entail. If they end up doing anything I would imagine they would send out a guy with some hydraulic cement a few times a year to put a big ugly patch in your once beautiful pool...
The manager over the project said gravel or sand but someone else overruled him. He said it doesn't matter what is in the bag, once they are tied off, they are considered compacted and acceptable.

You're right about the cement. That is our fear.
 

luma7

Gold Supporter
Jun 3, 2020
100
Baldwin County, AL
Don't fall for that lifetime guarantee garbage... what does that even mean?

Do it right the first time because you'll be on your own the second time.

This is your pool and your money. You have the control. There are about 10 posts a day on here from people with major structural issues after just a year or two....
I really value and appreciate your feedback. We're thinking about asking for the owner or head manager and asking for a structural engineering inspection with the engineer's sign off on their change. If they balk then we will offer to pay the expense if the engineer didn't require any changes. If there were issues or changes, then we'd propose the PB eat the cost. I can't think of any other way to get them to listen.
 

Rich D

Bronze Supporter
Aug 3, 2018
897
MA
He said it doesn't matter what is in the bag, once they are tied off, they are considered compacted and acceptable.
I am not a engineer However I work frequently with them for the past 30 yrs. I have seen only seen clean stone or processed sand specified for that application. Never common fill. If a engineer did spec common fill I would find a different engineer.
 

luma7

Gold Supporter
Jun 3, 2020
100
Baldwin County, AL
Crew came out today and finished the depth change. PB texted gunite is scheduled for tomorrow. I responded that the deep end has standing water and the rebar has been pushed down into the clay in one area. No answer yet. I thought I would have tomorrow to discuss this but it appears they want to move fast. We are due for rain for a week after Monday so maybe that is it.
 

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