DECIDED ON INTEX! Suggestions Wanted - Intex XTR vs "Real" AGP

[jseyfert3]

Hey all,

Been a while. No troubles with my inflatable spa water though, for some odd reason.

Anyway, we're buying a house, closing in January. We'd like a pool. Looking at 24' round AGP. I know a traditional metal wall pool is a PITA to setup, so for them we'd basically be looking to pay for install. A Intex XTR though, looks like it can be easily set up in a couple hours with two people, assuming you have relatively level ground. It's also a lot cheaper, BUT while that would help with our budget while settling into our house and continuing to pay down student loans, we could swing the install of a "real" AGP if we really wanted.

So, should we go with an Intex XTR for now, get 4-6 years out of it, and upgrade to a metal wall AGP? Or should we bite the bullet and get the metal wall right off the bat?

Hardwall: A local place advertises a Seaspray Evolution, on a vermiculite concrete base, with a main drain, "plumbing like in ground 'no cheap hoses'", 1.5 HP pump and 22" sand filter, solar blanket, winter cover, automatic chlorinator (not sure if SWCG or cheap tablet feeder), maintenance kit and startup chemicals (I probably don't want startup chems though) for $5000 installed, if the ground is level.

• Assuming no hidden fees, is this a decent price?
  • Quote: "All Gator's above grounds are priced that includes install except in cases where you need the ground leveled. You would also be required to order the mason sand if needed."
• Is it as good a pool brand as he claims?
• Anyone have experience with a vermiculite concrete base, or a concrete base in general for an AGP?

Intex: Well, this is obvious, price. At $1700 delivered, it's at least $3300 cheaper than the above option. This fits budget easier, which may allow us to consider putting a deck near the pool this year, which is likely out of the question until next year if we go hardwalled. From what I can gather here, unless I get one of the ones that rusted and failed prematurely (hopefully the inside powder coating of the XTR helps with this), I may expect up to 6 years of life or so. At this point we could easily go to any hardwalled pool, but if we ended up putting a deck around part of the intex I imaging I'd have to tear the deck down for the hardwall pool install.

• Price is a pro, obviously.
• Lifespan seems iffy, based on a search here, though the XTR seems too new to know life for sure.
• If we build a deck, I imagine I'll have to tear that down to the beams and/or support posts when/if we upgrade to a hardwalled model in 4-6 years so they have room to do the install.
  • Annoying to say the least if this would be necessary.
  • If the pool even lasts that long.
• Requires addition of skimmer, upgraded filter/pump (though I have a filter/pump from a friends old pool that may work), winter cover.

Summary: The way I see it, it's likely go Intex and get a deck this year, or go hardwall and delay the deck till next year. Seems logical that after the lifespan of the Intex we'd want to go hardwall anyway. Is that a logical assumption? Basically both sides have pros and cons, and I'd like some additional thoughts from those with experience to weigh in to help our decision process.

Unrelated side note: The house we are buying already has a 240 V, 5 person spa on the back patio, so we don't have to talk about buying and installing that vs the pool first.

 

[kimkats]

Some VERY good questions and solid thought process!

automatic chlorinator (not sure if SWCG or cheap tablet feeder)

It is going to be a tower tablet feeder in line with the equipment. It could come in handy for weekend trips and such. It is NOT good for full time chlorine addition due to adding CYA with each tablet.

if the ground is level.

THIS is the kicker!! I don't care how level is LOOKS it is NOT level LOL That talk about "mason sand" as if it can be used to level the area. NOPE! You do NOT build up low areas. You dig down the high areas so it is all on solid, level ground.

Okay so on to the now and later plan......both pools will need a level area to put them on so that will add to the up front cost. I say Intex to get your start but do not put a deck all the way around it. Build a platform with enough room for a couple of loungers and the stairs and call it good. That will allow you to save up money to get the hard side pool AND full sized deck. Now you might need to increase the area the bigger pool will sit on but that will not be too hard to do.

Kim

 

[jseyfert3]

Some VERY good questions and solid thought process!

It is going to be a tower tablet feeder in line with the equipment. It could come in handy for weekend trips and such. It is NOT good for full time chlorine addition due to adding CYA with each tablet.

Thanks. I've spent a good amount of time here, we we first got our inflatable hot tub and also on the pool section because twice now I've gotten free used AGPs but moved before we finished setting them up. My wife is not happy about that, she really wants a pool!

THIS is the kicker!! I don't care how level is LOOKS it is NOT level LOL That talk about "mason sand" as if it can be used to level the area. NOPE! You do NOT build up low areas. You dig down the high areas so it is all on solid, level ground.

Yeah I was a bit confused about it. I know the rule is no more than 1" unlevel side to side (with metal wall pools needing less than 1/8" or so post to post), so I didn't understand what he meant on the site. I thought maybe with the concrete base it could be "fudged" a little bit. One of my concerns with paying for installation of an AGP is that I'd be super annoyed if I paid money for something that wasn't done right, that I could have done myself.

Okay so on to the now and later plan......both pools will need a level area to put them on so that will add to the up front cost. I say Intex to get your start but do not put a deck all the way around it. Build a platform with enough room for a couple of loungers and the stairs and call it good. That will allow you to save up money to get the hard side pool AND full sized deck. Now you might need to increase the area the bigger pool will sit on but that will not be too hard to do.

I mentioned doing it myself, and I know I could install a metal wall AGP myself (with a couple friends when it came time to put up the wall), but I'm not the best at finishing projects and my wife is really wanting the pool up this year, with the project not dragging out till next year. The Intex is certainly much easier to put up, which makes it much more DIY friendly. Level the ground, put in some pavers, pop it together in an hour, fill, bleach, and swim!

Good news is that I doubt we'd want to go bigger than a 24', and since Intex makes up to 24' pools upgrading shouldn't be that hard, should we decide to do that in the future. Right now I don't think I'd do a deck all the way around the pool, just from extra space in the yard, plus the fact that so far as I can tell, not only can decks not be free-floating here, but all of them require frost footings, which will require digging a 48" hole for each deck support. A smaller deck, say 14'x16' or so, could get away with four to six footings, but one surrounding the pool would require numerous other footings as I understand. I will double check with the city building department though, it could be they would allow a free-floating deck around a pool if it was not connected to a house or a deck attached to a house.

I've been looking at codes and permits. It appears I'd need to pull 4 permits for this project: Fence, electric, pool, and deck permits. That will be a fun learning experience... I also will need to wait till we close on the house and I can have the utilities marked to determine where I can even put the pool. I have a guess where the underground electric line runs in the backyard, but I need to know for sure as for obvious reasons a pool cannot be built within 5' of an underground electric line.

Thank you for the feedback! Right now, I think I'm leaning towards the Intex for budget and DIY reasons, but I'm still open to arguments from others as to why I should go with a hard-walled pool (or why I shouldn't).

 

[kimkats]

How do you think you will level the ground? It is NOT fun but can be done with enough sweat and beer.

 

[jseyfert3]

I'm not sure. Honestly I did not pay attention to how sloped the backyard is. Overall I think the majority is fairly level, but until we close and I can have utilities marked so I know where we can put the pool I won't know how unlevel it actually is.

I'm hoping for not more than a few inches max, but I'm not sure. Wait, my city has GIS mapping with elevation lines, let me check...


There we go. Not sure where the elevation lines come from. Survey before the subdivision was built? There's definitely a hill on the left by the deck, so that checks out, but obviously elevation lines running through houses don't make any sense. Each elevation line is 2' from the next line, so from the dark brown 860' line in the trees into the yard it's 862' by the putting green (which is coming out), 864' by the outside of the deck and 866' by the inside of the deck. I measured the distance between the lines shown by the red arrow as 33' on the mapping tool, so if we put the pool in the left half of the yard that implies about 1.5' will need to be dug out on one side of the pool. That's a lot to do by hand.

It's flatter on the right side of the yard but I have a suspicion the electric feeder line to the house runs from the middle-back of the house to the back-right corner of the lot by the trees, which if it is the case will rule out putting a 24' pool anywhere in right half of the backyard. The rear lot line is a few feet past the line of tree branches.

If it really is 1.5' to dig out on one side, then we'd be hiring someone with a skidsteer or similar to dig that out. A couple inches is one thing, but that's just too much work at that point.

 

[kimkats]

It is going to be very interesting to see where the line are.

I just thought of something....................a fence! You are going to have to pay for a fence for the pool. How does that impact things?

Smart man to know when to work with your wallet!

Kim

 

[jseyfert3]

Not mentioned, but already thought of. A 6' wood privacy fence for the entire backyard will run $1800 in wood. Add concrete/stone, fasteners, stain, and auger rental and we're probably talking at least $2500, but less than $3000. I'd do that myself, building a fence is one of the most straightforward projects there is. The only possible hard part would be roots on the back property line making digging those holes a pain. The rest of the property the current owner said was black dirt down to the bottom of the basement foundation when the house was built, so I'm expecting dirt and no clay which will make digging the holes with an auger a piece of cake.

 

[kimkats]

Gates? I would do one on each side with one being a double gate to get bigger things through.

 

[jseyfert3]

Yeah, that was my general plan for gates as well. According to the brochure, they have to be locked when the pool isn't in use, but it doesn't mention self-closing, which is good since that would likely be a bit difficult with a 6' privacy fence. I'll of course check with the building department so I don't spend $3k and tons of time building a fence to find out it's not suitable for a pool though!

Here's a couple low-res pics I quickly cropped from our appraisal report. Note the right (when viewed from front of house) side of the yard would be ideal, not only because it's close to the patio (and hot tub) but because it's flatter.

That said, the other side of the yard appears fairly flat, though pictures can be pretty deceiving. Jan 31st feels like such a long way off. I know it'll be here soon, too soon in some ways. I really need to start packing, since my wife is working and I'm at home by myself...

I also need to order a refill for my test kit since I'm almost out along with some Ahh-Some before the end of January, so as soon as we close I can start flushing whatever junk is in those hot tub lines, do a drain and refill, and get it ready to use to soak in for an after-move relaxation!

 

[kimkats]

That is a very pretty house and lot! Yeah the right side will be purrfect for the pool. What room does the sliding doors lead to? How close is the nearest bathroom?

Now go start packing but do NOT tape them shut yet! You KNOW you will pack something your wife will needed LOL Where does she work that she is working TODAY?

 

[jseyfert3]

Thanks! Now we just have to try to make the upgrades look good as well.

The sliding doors on the patio lead to the family room. There's a bathroom off the family room. Sliding doors on the deck lead to the kitchen.

My wife is an APRN. On average she's worked every other holiday since she first became an RN. Those pesky hospitals! Why can't they just shut them down for the holidays?

 

[kimkats]

I was guessing Doctor, nurse, or cop! I love me some RN!! It was an RN that saved my husband's life while the others just ran around screaming She knew just what to do and it worked!! PLEASE give her a hug and thank you for me!!

 

[Newdude]

Hug her for me too. My mom and Aunt are both in nursing home rehab and my Father in Law is in ICU at the moment. Everybody is on the mend thankfully, but not without those folks that can spare their holidays and family time.

 

[jseyfert3]

Additional question: Assuming we went intex route, the 24'x52” round or the 32'x16'x52” square? They both hold roughly the same amount of water, with about the same surface area (square is slightly larger).

Does either a square or a round pool of the same gallons and depth "feel" bigger than the other?

I read the round stay a bit cleaner as junk tends to collect in the corners. I'm guessing not a huge issue with skimmers and a vacuum.

The square would make building a deck easier, since there would be no curves. That's a good pro. It would also tend to fit nicer into square yards, leaving more usable space in the yard.

The round is $200 cheaper, though ultimately that's not a significant portion of the pool/pump/fence/deck total package cost.

 

[kimkats]

If/when you move to a metal walled pool it will be round so...............plan with the end in mind! ROUND!

 

[jseyfert3]

Well I started thinking about that too. If the Intex lasts 6 years, which seems reasonable based on threads I've seen here (unexplainable short lives ignored), is there actually much of a benefit to having a metal walled AGP?

 

[Newdude]

Just the statistical odds of the metal walled pool lasting several times longer. Chances are you will only do it once instead of 3 or 4 times.

Definitely get quotes for the deck before hand. Lumber is expensive and if you are paying somebody to do it, very labor intensive and time consuming. We set out to do a ABG with a wrap around deck and the deck and fence put us into the IG pool price range and I refused to spend $18-$20k on an ABG project. We literally went out to buy a $3k pool. Which we upgraded to bigger pool for $6k including installation. Which turned into almost $20k including the deck and fence. So i decided to spend said $20k on a IG pool Which we upgraded to a bigger, better equiptment, heated, salt $36k pool, which still needed a patio and a fence. Which is how i blew $60k on my $3k pool project. But i'll never have to replace it so i have that going for me, which is nice.

 

[kimkats]

6 of one, half a dozen of another! Your snow loads is the main think I worry about with both kinds. If you need to you need to you can always take the legs off the Intex and let it lay flat.

 

[Newdude]

If you need to you need to you can always take the legs off the Intex and let it lay flat.

They come apart fairly easily and if dried properly and talcum powdered (or equivalent) they can be stored indoors. But the drying and folding part is a pain that most people give up doing after 2 or 3 seasons.

 

[jseyfert3]

Just the statistical odds of the metal walled pool lasting several times longer. Chances are you will only do it once instead of 3 or 4 times.

Definitely get quotes for the deck before hand. Lumber is expensive and if you are paying somebody to do it, very labor intensive and time consuming. We set out to do a ABG with a wrap around deck and the deck and fence put us into the IG pool price range and I refused to spend $18-$20k on an ABG project. We literally went out to buy a $3k pool. Which we upgraded to bigger pool for $6k including installation. Which turned into almost $20k including the deck and fence. So i decided to spend said $20k on a IG pool Which we upgraded to a bigger, better equiptment, heated, salt $36k pool, which still needed a patio and a fence. Which is how i blew $60k on my $3k pool project. But i'll never have to replace it so i have that going for me, which is nice.

Ah yes, the dreaded scope creep. It's really hard to make and follow a plan! I know from experience. That was some scope creep though!

I plan on doing the deck myself. There's a lot to it (I read the Wisconsin State Code on decks), but overall it's not hard. I expect supplies alone to be at least $3k, but I won't know till I have a completed deck plan approved by the city.

I think I'm still leaning towards an Intex for now, for conservative budget reasons, which in 4-6 years we can upgrade to a nice metal wall pool.

6 of one, half a dozen of another! Your snow loads is the main think I worry about with both kinds. If you need to you need to you can always take the legs off the Intex and let it lay flat.

Ah snow. Wisconsin is supposed to have a lot. We planned to get snow tires. We got probably almost a foot of snow total in three snowfalls, within like two weeks, in early November! Got the snow tires, mounted them, and they chased the snow away! Hasn't snowed in over a month. I guess the snow tires are working after all!