Debate with Pentair Support (Power On without water flow is a NO NO)

[rheide]

All - my Salt Cell failed (I have another thread for that) and I'm trying to get Pentair to repair it within warranty.

I've gone through hours of tests but the last person asked me to send a picture of the cell when I turn the pump off.
I sent a photo of the cell with the red light showing no flow.

He responded with this:
"That is an issue, and probably why you are losing salt cell units. IntelliChlor cannot have power on without water flow, or else it is installed wrong and can take damage.

Power on with out water flow will over heat the cell, and if it ever registers Green Flow when the pump is not moving water, you can damage other parts of your pool equipment. "

In the past 15 years, I've never powered off my Salt Cell when the pump isn't running. To clarify, it's never running DRY.
If it can't have power when it isn't running, I would think it would have a HUGE sticker on it to say that.

I skimmed through the manual and can't find anything that mentions that (although it was a quick scan).

So ... I'm now trying to figure out - have I lost my mind or are they feeding me some BS?

 

[JamesW]

Can you show how the SWG is connected to power?

Need some help with my 2 year old IC-40

Hello All, Having some issues with my 2 year old IC-40. Shortly after opening the pool (last month), started getting some strange errors with the IC-40. Inspect Cell, Clean Cell, Check Flow (can't remember exactly what the flow error said), etc. I then realized my pump wasn't pushing the...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JamesW]

The SWG should be powered from the Filter Pump Relay Load Terminals.

This means that the EasyTouch should shut off power to the SWG any time that the pump is powered off.

Are you controlling the pump from the EasyTouch or from the pump's control panel?

 

[dfwnoob]

How is the IntelliChlor being controlled? Is it standalone or part of an IntelliTouch/EasyTouch? Either way, regardless of the configuration, the IntelliChlor manual states it must be wired to receive power from the pump relay or time clock (page iii). You should never be relying on the flow detection to turn the SWCG on/off. If it's connected via serial to an IntelliTouch or an EasyTouch, it shouldn't generally command the cell to generate if the pump isn't also activated, but I assume they always want it wired to the pump relay as a failsafe. In my AquaLink/AquaPure install, I wired the SWCG to the pump relay even though the VSP itself is hard wired.

The danger of the cell running with no flow is a buildup of hydrogen gas leading to an explosion. I'm not a chemistry expert and would likely fail a high school chemistry class, but as I understand it, during the electrolysis process, the chlorine gas created is acidic (though it is neutralized later) - if that were somehow occurring inside the cell with no flow, I could see that damaging a cell, though I think Pentair's answer is BS. I'd imagine you'd blow the cell to bits due to hydrogen buildup before the plates were damaged..

I patiently await my chemistry correction because I can't imagine how much of that I got wrong.

 

[ajw22]

 

[Jimrahbe]

r,

If you have an EasyTouch, there is a huge note on the SWCG transformer stating that it MUST be powered by the pump/filter relay..

Jim R.

 

[JamesW]

CAUTION - Wire the Power Center AC to the filter pump relay on the LOAD SIDE for maximum safety.

IntelliChlor (SCG) AC Wiring Instructions:

When using the IntelliChlor SCG and an IntelliFlo pump(or 2-speed pump) with an IntelliTouch, EasyTouch or SunTouch Control System, the IntelliChlor AC power center wires must be connected to the LOAD SIDE OF THE FILTER PUMP RELAY located in the Load/Power Center (see diagram on page 27).

This ensures that the IntelliChlor SCG cell produces chlorine only when the main filter pump is on.

This method does not require a ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) to protect the circuit.

Note: For non-automation control systems using a time clock, see page 30 for wiring information.

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/sanitizers/intellichlor/intellichlor-installation-users-guide-ic15-ic20-ic40-ic60.pdf

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/sanitizers/intellichlor/intellichlor-power-center-manual-ic20-ic40-ic60-english.pdf

 

[ajw22]

 

[ajw22]

 

[rheide]

James,
I will take some photos so I can get you the info you requested.
I have the cell plugged (screwed) into the bottom of the panel - I would just need to track back where the wires go. I know I haven't moved them in the last 10-15 years.

In the meantime, I manage everything through EasyTouch.
For the test I was describing - I was standing at the control panel and I hit the Mode button so the pump would stop running.
And then the red light came on - which it should.

And just to clarify - If I hit the breaker, easytouch and SWG will all completely turn off (no power)

More to come when I can trace the power cables, etc.

Thanks in advance for all the support/help!

 

[ajw22]

 

[JamesW]

I was standing at the control panel and I hit the Mode button so the pump would stop running.

If the EasyTouch tells the pump to shut off, it should also shut off power to the Filter Pump Relay, which should remove power from the SWG.

I suspect that the wiring is incorrect or the configuration is incorrect.

In any case, I think that operating with No Flow mostly risks a cell explosion.

If the cell does not explode, I am not sure if there is any significant damage risk.

 

[rheide]

Wow - thanks again for all the feedback.

Quick question - when you all hit the Mode button on your EasyTouch, does your SCG immediately power off (ie. NO lights)?
I'm asking because when I tested it, I was only standing there for 10 seconds before I turned it back on.

Wiring details to come tomorrow!!

 

[Jimrahbe]

R,

If you used the mode button to go into the Service mode... and the cell still had any lights.. Then your system is not wired correctly. Period..

It might take a few seconds, but not long..

Show us some pics of your Pump/Filter relay.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

Intellichlor transformer that is in your EasyTouch panel and the label that directs it to be connected to the LOAD side of the filter pump relay...

 

[ajw22]

Pentair mentions the need to not have the Intellichor cell powered when the pump is off in at least six places.

 

[rheide]

All -
I made the mistake of jumping on here real quick to get a quick opinion.
I should have read the manual in more detail to see all the warnings and I hopefully I would have noticed that it said it shouldn't have power.

Sometimes - when things work fine for 10+ years, you assume everything is wired correctly.
I've learned to NOT assume any longer.

Thanks again and I'll still plan on uploading the wiring tomorrow.

 

[JamesW]

Is the power center internal to the EasyTouch or External?

 

[JamesW]

 

[Bperry]

All -
I made the mistake of jumping on here real quick to get a quick opinion.
I should have read the manual in more detail to see all the warnings and I hopefully I would have noticed that it said it shouldn't have power.

Sometimes - when things work fine for 10+ years, you assume everything is wired correctly.
I've learned to NOT assume any longer.

Thanks again and I'll still plan on uploading the wiring tomorrow.

I don’t know about that cell, but if it worked fine for 10 years and recently stopped then I’d checked the flow switch if it’s a separate component. It’s likely failed closed.