Day 5, pool company arrived...

[texasAUtiger]

day 5 since filling and the pool company came to begin their magic on the water. (They manage the water for the first 30 days.)

I was not here when they came, but I can tell they backwashed the filter, added chlorine (probably a tablet through the feeder) and likely did something to begin lowering the pH.

My pebble aggregate is embedded in a sky blue plaster base and the pool water is now a very cloudy sky blue. This seems to be from plaster dust in the water.

I had tested my fill water once the pool was filled and posted those results earlier here. Today, I tested again and tested everything. Here ya go:

FC 4.5
CC 0
pH 8.2 Even though it registered 8.2, it was closer to the 8.2 color than the day I filled.
TA 340 (!)
CH 50
CYA 0 The solution in the cylinder was perfectly clear like water even when all the way full.

Thoughts?

 

[Texas Splash]

Surprised they haven't added some stabilizer yet. TX is getting hot so you'll need it. I wouldn't fret about the TA. It will begin to lower once you start doing all the acid applications to lower the pH. That CH sure is low. You sure about that one? If it is that low, I would speak to them about increasing it to at least the 200 - 250 range. Also ask them about the lack of CYA. Congrats on the new watering hole.

 

[texasAUtiger]

I wouldn't be surprised if they just put a chlorine puck in the feeder and that was supposed to be where it gets its CYA. Or maybe I got home soon after he left and it hadn't had time to fully mix in the pool. Who knows since I couldn't talk to him. If I see him again soon, I will ask.

As for the CYA test, it was clear as clear could be all the way through the test. I figured I'd check it again tomorrow.

As for the CH test, yeah, it turned blue in just 2 drops.

PB is supposed to be here for "pool school" tomorrow, too.

 

[texasAUtiger]

Day 6, gave it 24 hours to see the impact of whatever the pool company supposedly did yesterday.

Here are my updated test results:

FC 0.5 (yes, double confirmed)
CC 0.5
pH 8.2+
TA 320
CH 50
CYA 0 (yes, double confirmed... the 15 mL solution is clear as spring water so no matter how much I add to the cylinder, the black dot isn't going anywhere)

Clearly there is no CYA in the pool and I thought the chlorine tabs would have supplied some in the 14 hours the pump has been running since I last measured. But alas...

I went looking everywhere around town for CYA today but no one had any other than the clorox brand. I just ordered some on Amazon but it won't be here til Mon or Tue.

PB says let the pool company handle it for the first month, but admits he builds pool and doesn't do chemistry. He said they come once a week to check the water so I feel I'm in limbo until next Wed. UGH. I don't want algae, nor do I want any bad side effects of high pH and TA and low CH.

Sit tight? I probably don't have much of a choice as the only chemicals I have on hand are muriatic acid and LC. The CH increaser and CYA are coming from Amazon Mon or Tue.

 

[HermanTX]

Day 6, gave it 24 hours to see the impact of whatever the pool company supposedly did yesterday.

Here are my updated test results:

FC 0.5 (yes, double confirmed)
CC 0.5
pH 8.2+
TA 320
CH 50
CYA 0 (yes, double confirmed... the 15 mL solution is clear as spring water so no matter how much I add to the cylinder, the black dot isn't going anywhere)

Clearly there is no CYA in the pool and I thought the chlorine tabs would have supplied some in the 14 hours the pump has been running since I last measured. But alas...

I went looking everywhere around town for CYA today but no one had any other than the clorox brand. I just ordered some on Amazon but it won't be here til Mon or Tue.

PB says let the pool company handle it for the first month, but admits he builds pool and doesn't do chemistry. He said they come once a week to check the water so I feel I'm in limbo until next Wed. UGH. I don't want algae, nor do I want any bad side effects of high pH and TA and low CH.

Sit tight? I probably don't have much of a choice as the only chemicals I have on hand are muriatic acid and LC. The CH increaser and CYA are coming from Amazon Mon or Tue.

Rather than waiting for your Amazon shipment, can you ask your PB if he has the needed chemicals? He may have them and not aware his service team is not meeting the specs of the plaster mfg. You can show him the specs if you can download them from the mfg. website. You do not state who your pebble aggregate was mfg. by.

 

[Newdude]

Clearly there is no CYA in the pool and I thought the chlorine tabs would have supplied some in the 14 hours

You can’t read under 20. And tabs take days to add 1-2 ppm each.

Sit tight? I probably don't have much of a choice as the only chemicals I have on hand are muriatic acid and LC. The CH increaser and CYA are coming from Amazon Mon or Tue.

You probably have to wait it out. You can lose all your FC in an hour with little/no CYA. I’m not sure if I would live at the pool replenishing it every hour or let it go and risk an eventual SLaM having to babysit *that*. (But no slam for 30 days because plaster).

t no one had any other than the clorox brand

If it’s 100% Cyanuric Acid it’s good. Did it have other crud or are you just averse to Chlorox because most of their stuff is bad ?

 

[texasAUtiger]

Rather than waiting for your Amazon shipment, can you ask your PB if he has the needed chemicals? He may have them and not aware his service team is not meeting the specs of the plaster mfg. You can show him the specs if you can download them from the mfg. website. You do not state who your pebble aggregate was mfg. by.

The best I can tell the pebble manufacturer is Peerless Pebble.

I can see if the PB has some stabilizer. I might be able to get some from a friend or neighbor.

 

[texasAUtiger]

You can’t read under 20. And tabs take days to add 1-2 ppm each.



You probably have to wait it out. You can lose all your FC in an hour with little/no CYA. I’m not sure if I would live at the pool replenishing it every hour or let it go and risk an eventual SLaM having to babysit *that*. (But no slam for 30 days because plaster).

If it’s 100% Cyanuric Acid it’s good. Did it have other crud or are you just averse to Chlorox because most of their stuff is bad ?

I saw "Clorox Blue" or something like that and immediately dismissed it. ;-(

 

[Newdude]

I saw "Clorox Blue" or something like that and immediately dismissed it. ;

Dang it, I was hoping it was an okay one. You made the right call.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Now, I'm disgusted by Clorox products now since they ruined their liquid bleach with all that silly polymer stuff...and they sneak copper in to a mess of their products and don't make that clear to the consumer. But I have learned recently here that the Clorox CYA is the one acceptable product. You can't add copper to that, I guess!?

Maddie

 

[texasAUtiger]

Ok, I landed some CYA from Leslie's of all places. (They just got some in.) I got 4 lbs until my Amazon order could arrive.

PoolMath says I needed to add a gallon of 31.45% MA to bring my pH and TA down, so I went the conservative route and added 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon this morning, with the pump running. In 30 minutes my water cleared up considerably!

Then I did my first "sock method" and added 1.5 lbs of CYA to each of two filter basket socks. One I tied to a pool float and the other I held in front of return, occasionally squishing. Then I would put the second one in the skimmer to let it soften while I worked on the first. Round and round I went, resting from time to time. After a few hours I had it all dissolved. (PoolMath says I needed about 5 lbs CYA to get to target level, but I wanted to be conservative. I'll wait a couple of days to test CYA and react as necessary.)

The water continued to clear up with every hour that went by. After a few hours I decided to test some things to see:
(I did add some LC last night just to tide things over in hopes of landing CYA today, which I did.)

FC: 2.5
CC: 0
pH: 7.5 (progress!)
TA: 300 (ok, that's some progress)

Based on that, I added the last quart of 31.45% MA and will measure pH again later this evening or maybe in the morning. I suspect I will need to add another gallon of MA to gradually work the TA down, but that's ok.

In the meantime, in just 30 minutes since adding that quart of MA, the water has gotten even clearer. Pretty amazing what a difference it seems pH makes in water clarity. I couldn't see the bottom of the first step yesterday and now I can see the main drain pretty clearly (but not crystal clear... just one or two notches away from that).

Thanks for everyone's insight and help!

Ok, back to brushing and swimming and lounging, and brushing and swimming and lounging... ;-)

 

[Texas Splash]

Progress is good. I suspect the acid and pH control is helping with all the calcium in the water. Continue to watch the FC closely so that it doesn't fall below 2-3 ppm. Your CYA should register fairly well by tomorrow, so you can balance the FC better then. Always go to the FC/CYA Levels. Enjoy.

 

[Newdude]

I landed some CYA from Leslie's of all places. (They just got some in.)

Don’t write them off for everything because their testing / fleecing you sucks. When you pinch a Union o-ring on a Saturday and Amazon can’t deliver until Wednesday, You won’t care it’s $7 more at the pool store on the spot.

Sure, if you have the time to shop around, by all means but if they fill a need and a few bucks isn’t the problem, you can score. Just get what you wanted and lalalalalalalalalala your way out the store.

Ok, back to brushing and swimming and lounging, and brushing and swimming and lounging... ;-)

Congrats on the progress

Keep us posted as always.

 

[Mike1162]

I'm using the Clorox stabilizer. The package is blue but doesn't say blue. Does say "100% Cyanuric Acid".

 

[texasAUtiger]

I'm using the Clorox stabilizer. The package is blue but doesn't say blue. Does say "100% Cyanuric Acid".

I probably made a mistake. I admit I didn't look super hard once I saw clorox.

 

[Sunnydaze]

I'm using the Clorox stabilizer. The package is blue but doesn't say blue. Does say "100% Cyanuric Acid".

I also use the clorox stabilizer as it's the cheapest i can find when purchasing it from Walmart...even beats online prices. It is 100% cyanuric acid and I've had no issues with it.

 

[Newdude]

I probably made a mistake. I admit I didn't look super hard once I saw clorox

The exact same will keep you out of trouble allllllllllllll the other times. You may have been wrong but you still did good.

Anywho, for future reference, if the ingredients say 100% CYA, it’s good. I believe I’ve read on here one of the brands was 99% and also good but all the ones I ever saw were 100%.

 

[texasAUtiger]

Day 9 update...

Yesterday's tests held steady and then today's showed the new plaster was indeed drinking some acid and the CYA I added took effect...

FC: 2.5
CC: 0.0
pH: 8.2
TA: 300 (disappointed this didn't come down but let's see after the needed MA dose)
CH: 50 (holding steady)
CYA: 40 (yeah! I now know what it looks like for the black dot to disappear)
CSI: 0.44

Added 10% LC and some MA per Poolmath, waited a few hours, and retested:

FC: 4.0
CC: 0.0
pH: 7.5
CSI: -0.26

Very small sample size, but if the pattern continues to hold, it's about 3/4 gal of 31.45% MA every other day at this juncture. Hope it will move the TA, but not worried.

CSI seems ok, but don't know what to make of it too much. (Poolmath says -0.60 to 0.60.)

When do I start to think about addressing the CH? I'm brushing 2-3x daily and seeing very little dust.

PS Water looks crystal clear. When it looks a little off, it turns out the pH has risen, and the MA clears it up in less than 5 mins. Pretty amazing to watch.

 

[Texas Splash]

I would not lower the pH quite so much right now. For the first 30 days, just keep the pH around 7.7 - 7.8 so that your CSI doesn't drop too low while the plaster is trying to cure. Speaking of that, the CH is definitely too low. I would speak to the builder about adding about 150 - 200 ppm of calcium to get the CH at least to 200 - 250 ppm minimum. Local hard water should increase it from there. Good job testing and staying on top of things.

 

[Stoopalini]

CSI: 0.44

Added 10% LC and some MA per Poolmath, waited a few hours, and retested:

CSI: -0.26

CSI seems ok, but don't know what to make of it too much. (Poolmath says -0.60 to 0.60.)

CSI is "Calcite Saturation Index". It tells you how saturated the water is with calcite, which in turn, lets you know if it can hold anymore.

When CSI is negative, it means the water has the potential to absorb more calcite, and will do so by pulling it from sources which have calcium (ie: your plaster).

When CSI is positive, it means the water is oversaturated with calcite, and has the potential to begin depositing it on surfaces in contact with the water.

Because your calcium is so low, you're hitting negative CSI with a relatively small pH drop. I agree with Pat, and you should raise the CH up, so you can maintain a very slightly positive CSI (while the plaster is curing) with normal range pH. Once the plaster is cured and established, it's best to maintain a slightly negative CSI, to avoid scaling problems.

The plaster manufacturer will have a required CH range, especially during curing, for the warranty as well, and it's most definitely above 50ppm for the minimum.