Dallas TX - Heater - Gas or Electric

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lardo5150

lardo5150

0
Apr 13, 2017
280
Little Elm Texas
I am just now this week getting estimates for heater installation.
We do not have a SPA, and we are looking to extend the season, not heat year round.
Example...its Wednesday and the forecast says it will be 72 on the weekend (in March), but the water is cold and we would like to swim that day.

I have had one company come out (with others on the schedule). They have not sent the estimate over but he was telling me they installed an electric one for a lady and he said it takes FOREVER for it to heat up, and her bill was insane.

I asked about electric because the gas line is going to be pretty long.

Salt pool, about 16K gallons, all jandy.

Any experience with today's heaters, to say if that guy was wrong or not?
 
Best case a 140K BTU HP would heat your 14.5K pool at 1 degree per hour if your air temperature is 80F and 80% humidity. Take either of those down and your HP will have less performance.

A 400K gas heater will heat your pool 2.6 degrees per hour regardless of the outside temperature.

A gas heater is good for heat on demand which is what you describe.

A HP is good to maintain a temperature 24/7 and will take a while to raise a pools temperature.
 
lardo,

Do you already have gas on your property?

If not, I doubt the gas company will install one for just the pool.

At least where I live that is case, because I thought about getting a gas heater and that is what I found out. :(

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
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If you are energy conscious and you don't like the thought of putting heat into the pool during the shoulder months only to see it evaporate away, then you will need a solar cover to help retain heat. Evaporative heat loss occurs mainly at night so a covered pool is a must to retain heat. Generally where you are the cover can come off by the time the summer heat kicks in and you will likely not use a heater during the hottest months. So it will mainly run only in the shoulder months.

But, in the other use case of trying to maintain a specific temperature (eg, "my wife and kids will only swim if the water is refreshing and not too hot"), then you would need something like a heat pump that can both heat and cool the water. Generally those types of heat pumps are not great at doing either function but it would be required if you wanted a very specific temperature.
 
I use my gas heater to bring the pool up to temp in the spring and then switch over to the heat pump to maintain that temp. I don't use a solar cover so my heat pump runs most nights to keep up with the heat loss due to evaporation.
 
It probably depends on how you are going to use your pool.

I have a spa and gas heater, and see similar results to the 2.6 degrees per hour that Allen mentioned above. We mainly use our heater for the spa, but will kick on the heater in pool mode for 2-3 weekends a year to be able to swim during parties or special occasions in April/May and October/November. Our gas heater works great for that but if you were looking to maintain a certain temp for more regular swimming, I would look at a heat pump. You can also get a heat pump that has a chiller feature and knock down the temp during the dog days of summer.
 
lardo5150 said:
Sounds like I would want a HP if I was wanting to keep the temp at a certain level long term.
Gas for those "hey, lets swim this weekend even though it is November".
Click to expand...
Yup, you got it.
 
If you want to look at costs, you should grab you gas bill and look at the total $'s per therm number (not just the gas cost but also delivery charges and taxes). A 400,000 but/hr heater uses 400 cubic feet of gas per hour which is roughly 4 therms (there's some variation in gas energy content and density with temperature but those numbers are good enough). So you can easily figure out what a gas heater will cost you to run per hour. I pay about $1.72 per therm so my gas heater costs $6.87 per hour ($165 per 24-hour period) to run ...
 

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I have a gas Pentair Mastertemp 400k BTU heater. It will heat my pool a little under 2 degrees per hour. I use it for the same reasons you describe, to extend our swim season, comfortably. Each spring, usually in late March or April, I use the heater to bump the water temp up 15 to 20° into the mid-80s range. I use a solar cover to maintain that temperature range during the shoulder months. This first bump usually maintains a comfortable water temperature until the end of the swim season. I do use the heater during summer just to bump the temp back up a couple degrees here and there.

Without that initial bump, it would take quite a while for the temps to get into that mid 80 range.
 
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Rancho Cost-a-Lotta said:
Without that initial bump, it would take quite a while for the temps to get into that mid 80 range.
Click to expand...

Similar here too. If I don’t use my gas heater at all, then the water will stay below 80F well into May even though the air temps during the day can easily be in the high 90’s. Pool water and the surrounding ground are a HUGE thermal mass to get warmed up.
 
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For a heater, if you’re just going to do fireman’s switch type control, you don’t need to pair the brand of heater with the rest of your equipment. Whatever Jandy automation you have, it should be able to control the heater through standard Fireman’s switch relay. If you were wanting something with digital communications and controls (RS485), then you’d have to pair the automation system and heater manufacturer.
 
Yes I would like to have it available via the automation.

Yes I am aware you can't get it online, I was just hoping someone here had access to those prices so I can get a feel of what this hit to the wallet will be like post pandemic and current inflation
 
If I were to ever add a heater, I’d add a heat pump with ability to chill. Depending on summer rain and evaporation, the pool can end up in bath water territory! Energy efficient and able to move the needle both ways seems like smart money in Texas.
 
reggiehammond said:
If I were to ever add a heater, I’d add a heat pump with ability to chill. Depending on summer rain and evaporation, the pool can end up in bath water territory! Energy efficient and able to move the needle both ways seems like smart money in Texas.
Click to expand...

The downside is that when you want a heater/chiller, you are more limited in the amount of BTUs available to do either function. For cooling, many people have had good success with Glacier Chillers (evaporative coolers) and they don’t require nearly as much power as a compressor driven heat pump. So you could do a very efficient electric heat pump for heating only and then pair it with an evaporative cooler. You could also do a gas heater for fast response and then a Glacier chiller for long term cooling.
 
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lardo5150 said:
Yes I would like to have it available via the automation.

Yes I am aware you can't get it online, I was just hoping someone here had access to those prices so I can get a feel of what this hit to the wallet will be like post pandemic and current inflation
Click to expand...
I have Jandy automation but I have the NG Pentair 400k BTU MasterTemp heater. The automation will turn heater on and off and I can set temperature for both spa and pool. It does not use a RS485 cable. It is hooked up to only turn on if main circulation pump is running but there is also a 2-wire hookup from the heater to the green connector on the PCB automation.

I read in another post on the forum where someone mentioned $4500 but not sure of the make of heater. I definitely think you are in the $4500 to $5500 range for a NG 400k BTU heater.

See the #1 & #2 slots on top right of PCB below. (Ignore the notations marked in blue as that was for another post on a solar connection)
7BF879BD-258B-4F68-A95E-5E32B598839B.jpeg
 

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