Cyanuric Acid problem

[K9waves]

I work with dogs who have mobility problems in an indoor warm water pool. Fiberglass swim spa, 4500 gallons, 30" filter using filter glass, UV light system.
I sanitize with chlorine tables and shock weekly.
I have been having a lot of trouble getting the chemistry stable due to high cyanuric acid. I did complete water change 2 months ago and the CA is already extremely high.

2 Questions
1-- should I switch to liquid chlorine?

2-- should I change from chlorine to a salt water system? I have a high bather load. Is salt water as effective as chlorine?

Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

Thank you!

Sandy

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! About your questions:
1 - Yes.
2 - You can. A programmable SWG simply uses a process to create chlorine out of salt that passes through the cell, but it's still chlorine.

Tabs are acidic and as you have learned twice already, they are stabilized and increase your CYA to a point that the FC is no longer effective. Here at TFP, we recommend indoor pools maintain a small amount of CYA somewhere around 20 ppm, then balance the FC to that CYA as noted on the FC/CYA Levels. That should keep human and furry swimmers comfortable in clean, sanitary water. The link below should also help.

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[K9waves]

Welcome to TFP! About your questions:
1 - Yes.
2 - You can. A programmable SWG simply uses a process to create chlorine out of salt that passes through the cell, but it's still chlorine.

Tabs are acidic and as you have learned twice already, they are stabilized and increase your CYA to a point that the FC is no longer effective. Here at TFP, we recommend indoor pools maintain a small amount of CYA somewhere around 20 ppm, then balance the FC to that CYA as noted on the FC/CYA Levels. That should keep human and furry swimmers comfortable in clean, sanitary water. The link below should also help.

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

Thank you for your reply. I plan to drain the pool and start again using liquid chlorine. Should the CA become too low, can I use tablets in addition to liquid chlorine to increase it?

 

[Texas Splash]

can I use tablets in addition to liquid chlorine to increase it?

Absolutely. If you don't have an inline tab feeder, just use a floater. Pour the chlorine slowly near the return jets.

 

[K9waves]

Welcome to TFP! About your questions:
1 - Yes.
2 - You can. A programmable SWG simply uses a process to create chlorine out of salt that passes through the cell, but it's still chlorine.

Tabs are acidic and as you have learned twice already, they are stabilized and increase your CYA to a point that the FC is no longer effective. Here at TFP, we recommend indoor pools maintain a small amount of CYA somewhere around 20 ppm, then balance the FC to that CYA as noted on the FC/CYA Levels. That should keep human and furry swimmers comfortable in clean, sanitary water. The link below should also help.

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

Need your help. I am so desperate.
I drained pool and refilled. Switched to liquid chlorine. Liquid chlorine does not hold no matter how much I put in.

Absolutely. If you don't have an inline tab feeder, just use a floater. Pour the chlorine slowly near the return jets.

Texas Splash --- Need your help again. I'm desperate.
Drained pool and refilled with fresh water. Switched to liquid chlorine. Needed to add some stabilizer to get chemicals in balance. Chemicals balanced but no matter how much liquid chlorine I put in the next day it is gone and the water is cloudy.
Questions
What about switching to granular unstabilized chlorine?

I'm wondering if I might have a filtration problem. I have 30" sand filter and in the past have needed to change sand about every 18 months because it would get sticky. I switched to filter glass about a year ago. Can filter glass be giving me a problem?
Thank you

 

[Sunnydaze]

Need your help. I am so desperate.
I drained pool and refilled. Switched to liquid chlorine. Liquid chlorine does not hold no matter how much I put in.

Texas Splash --- Need your help again. I'm desperate.
Drained pool and refilled with fresh water. Switched to liquid chlorine. Needed to add some stabilizer to get chemicals in balance. Chemicals balanced but no matter how much liquid chlorine I put in the next day it is gone and the water is cloudy.
Questions
What about switching to granular unstabilized chlorine?

I'm wondering if I might have a filtration problem. I have 30" sand filter and in the past have needed to change sand about every 18 months because it would get sticky. I switched to filter glass about a year ago. Can filter glass be giving me a problem?
Thank you

What is your cya level now? Get it up to 30 and follow the SLAM Process

 

[Texas Splash]

Drained pool and refilled with fresh water.

How long ago did you change the water?

 

[K9waves]

What is your cya level now? Get it up to 30 and follow the SLAM Process

CYA is 31. It's an indoor fiberglass pool. I work with dogs so high bather load.

 

[K9waves]

How long ago did you change the water?

10 days ago

 

[Texas Splash]

Even if you had a filtration problem, it doesn't explain the loss of chlorine since you have an indoor pool with no sun on it. I would do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test just to validate FC loss over a 6-8 hr period. If you fail, then a SLAM Process is warranted. If you pass the OCLT, then it's time to open the filter and inspect. While there are members on the forum who use other media (glass, zeo, etc) we typically recognize sand as the most reliable media. Your comment about the glass media being sticky is odd if nothing has been added to the water other than stabilizer, chlorine, and acid.

 

[K9waves]

Even if you had a filtration problem, it doesn't explain the loss of chlorine since you have an indoor pool with no sun on it. I would do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test just to validate FC loss over a 6-8 hr period. If you fail, then a SLAM Process is warranted. If you pass the OCLT, then it's time to open the filter and inspect. While there are members on the forum who use other media (glass, zeo, etc) we typically recognize sand as the most reliable media. Your comment about the glass media being sticky is odd if nothing has been added to the water other than stabilizer, chlorine, and acid.

I'm wondering if the chlorine could have exceeded its shelf life? I purchased it from Menards 2 weeks ago

Clarification -- I used to use sand and it would get sticky and needed to be changed every 18 months. That's why I switched to filter glass.

We are open 3 days a week and see a about 50 dogs. I have been doing this work for 12 years and never had this much trouble getting the water clear.

I'm leaning toward going back to dichlor and just doing the water change every 2 months.

Appreciate your help!

 

[Bperry]

I'm wondering if the chlorine could have exceeded its shelf life? I purchased it from Menards 2 weeks ago

Clarification -- I used to use sand and it would get sticky and needed to be changed every 18 months. That's why I switched to filter glass.

We are open 3 days a week and see a about 50 dogs. I have been doing this work for 12 years and never had this much trouble getting the water clear.

I'm leaning toward going back to dichlor and just doing the water change every 2 months.

Appreciate your help!

Post some test results of the water, it’s pretty hard to help without any info

 

[K9waves]

Post some test results of the water, it’s pretty hard to help without any info

liquid chlorine was added the day before but none registering when I did this test.
ph - 7.5
TA - 120
Calcium hardness - 210
Cyanuric Acid - 30

thank you

Post some test results of the water, it’s pretty hard to help without any info

 

[Mdragger88]

Follow the SLAM Process until u pass all 3 end of slam criteria
It is done with liquid chlorine otherwise you will rapidly increase cya & make the problem worse.
How are u testing?
You didn’t list your fc or cc results.
An fas/dpd test kit is necessary to perform the slam
Liquid chlorine gets old & loses potency.
Always check the dates when u buy it

Chlorine Date Code Decoder - Further Reading

www.google.com

In your pool volume 70oz of 10% liquid chlorine should raise your fc level to 12ppm - SLAM level for your cya FC/CYA Levels
Test 15 minutes after adding to confirm & verify your liquid chlorine is the strength listed on the bottle- if u don’t get the rise u expected adjust the dose

 

[Texas Splash]

I'm wondering if the chlorine could have exceeded its shelf life? I purchased it from Menards 2 weeks ago

If the Julian date is more than a couple months old or if the bottles were stored outside they could be weaker than you expected. But I'm still confused about the sticky sand in the past. Do you typically add any other products to the water other than chlorine? Since your CYA is already at 30, I would not add any dichlor (stabilized) product. You don't want the CYA getting any higher.

Along with some of the questions from others above, I wanted to confirm .... are you testing and chlorinating the water everyday?

You do have a slightly different scenario than most here. Heavy bather load of 50 dogs per week in a pool slightly over what we consider seasonal in size. Seasonal pools we do recommend a complete dump & refill if the water clarity goers south, and we keep the testing much simpler. It's really a personal call for you at this point. We try to avoid waste either in chemicals or water, but if the water got cloudy from algae due to the FC dropping in just a few days, the cost of chlorine to maintain a SLAM may cost more than the water bill. I don't know. But if you do decide to run an OCLT, I'd be curious to see if you passed.

 

[K9waves]

If the Julian date is more than a couple months old or if the bottles were stored outside they could be weaker than you expected. But I'm still confused about the sticky sand in the past. Do you typically add any other products to the water other than chlorine? Since your CYA is already at 30, I would not add any dichlor (stabilized) product. You don't want the CYA getting any higher.

Along with some of the questions from others above, I wanted to confirm .... are you testing and chlorinating the water everyday?

You do have a slightly different scenario than most here. Heavy bather load of 50 dogs per week in a pool slightly over what we consider seasonal in size. Seasonal pools we do recommend a complete dump & refill if the water clarity goers south, and we keep the testing much simpler. It's really a personal call for you at this point. We try to avoid waste either in chemicals or water, but if the water got cloudy from algae due to the FC dropping in just a few days, the cost of chlorine to maintain a SLAM may cost more than the water bill. I don't know. But if you do decide to run an OCLT, I'd be curious to see if you passed.

Yes, since switching to liquid chlorine after the refill (10 days ago), I have been testing and adding liquid chlorine everyday.

Another problem with liquid chlorine is it can't be added at the beginning of the workday because of wait time to enter the pool after adding.

Might granular chlorine "Power Powder Plus" be an option?

The sticky sand I believe was due to buildup of oils from the dogs over time.

 

[Texas Splash]

Another problem with liquid chlorine is it can't be added at the beginning of the workday because of wait time to enter the pool after adding.

What wait time? Did the pool store tell you that? No need to wait a long time. If I add chlorine and have good water circulation, I'm in teh pool in just a few minutes. If concrened you can brush around a little, but no need to wait hours.

Might granular chlorine "Power Powder Plus" be an option?

Look at the ingredients label. It probably lists Trichlor or Dichlor as the main ingredient. Or it may be a Cal-Hypo product, I can't recall. Either way you're getting added CYA or CH. You can use them if you wish, but you have to be ready for the increased side effects. That's why liquid is usually better. Easy to dispense, quick acting, and no side effects.

The sticky sand I believe was due to buildup of oils from the dogs over time.

That sounds reasonable. Much different in your situation with so many dogs.

 

[Mdragger88]

Were u maintaining the high fc target for your cya before? If not, you should going forward after u pass ALL 3 end of slam criteria. Especially with the large organics load u have going daily. This will ensure u don’t fall below minimum for your cya allowing nasties to grow & that u have enough fc to oxidize all the bather waste. It is safe for swimmers & equipment with fc levels anywhere between minimum and slam level for your cya so long as u can see the bottom of the pool for safety. FC/CYA Levels
If you just drained & refilled without doing the SLAM Process it likely just bought u some time due to reduced algae/organics but it was still there & proliferating. Check & scrub any algae hiding spots u may have like light niches, ladder rails, jets, drain covers etc.

 

[K9waves]

What wait time? Did the pool store tell you that? No need to wait a long time. If I add chlorine and have good water circulation, I'm in teh pool in just a few minutes. If concrened you can brush around a little, but no need to wait hours.


Look at the ingredients label. It probably lists Trichlor or Dichlor as the main ingredient. Or it may be a Cal-Hypo product, I can't recall. Either way you're getting added CYA or CH. You can use them if you wish, but you have to be ready for the increased side effects. That's why liquid is usually better. Easy to dispense, quick acting, and no side effects.


That sounds reasonable. Much different in your situation with so many dogs.

Wait time after adding chlorine -- Internet says 4 hours -- How Long Do I Have to Wait to Swim After Adding Pool Chemicals? - Blue Diamond Pool Services

What wait time? Did the pool store tell you that? No need to wait a long time. If I add chlorine and have good water circulation, I'm in teh pool in just a few minutes. If concrened you can brush around a little, but no need to wait hours.


Look at the ingredients label. It probably lists Trichlor or Dichlor as the main ingredient. Or it may be a Cal-Hypo product, I can't recall. Either way you're getting added CYA or CH. You can use them if you wish, but you have to be ready for the increased side effects. That's why liquid is usually better. Easy to dispense, quick acting, and no side effects.


That sounds reasonable. Much different in your situation with so many dogs.

Wait time after adding liquid chlorine -- internet said 4 hours -- How Long Do I Have to Wait to Swim After Adding Pool Chemicals? - Blue Diamond Pool Services

2:00 Today Test
CYA 40
ph 7.2
TA 120
Calcium 310
DPD -- Free Chlorine .4
Combined Chlorine .6

Put 70 oz of liquid chlorine in pool

7:00 p.m. went back to check #'s
Chlorine sky high
Couldn't get a number because I stopped adding drops after I added 80 and still sample was bright pink.

No change in water cloudiness.

Made the mistake of doing this the day before we are scheduled to work. Will have to go in early and try to neutralize the chlorine if it hasn't come down.

 

[K9waves]

Follow the SLAM Process until u pass all 3 end of slam criteria
It is done with liquid chlorine otherwise you will rapidly increase cya & make the problem worse.
How are u testing?
You didn’t list your fc or cc results.
An fas/dpd test kit is necessary to perform the slam
Liquid chlorine gets old & loses potency.
Always check the dates when u buy it

Chlorine Date Code Decoder - Further Reading

www.google.com

In your pool volume 70oz of 10% liquid chlorine should raise your fc level to 12ppm - SLAM level for your cya FC/CYA Levels
Test 15 minutes after adding to confirm & verify your liquid chlorine is the strength listed on the bottle- if u don’t get the rise u expected adjust the dose

2:00 Today Test
CYA 40
ph 7.2
TA 120
Calcium 310
DPD -- Free Chlorine .4
Combined Chlorine .6

Put 70 oz of liquid chlorine in pool

7:00 p.m. went back to check #'s
Chlorine sky high
Couldn't get a number because I stopped adding drops after I added 80 and still sample was bright pink.

No change in water cloudiness.

Made the mistake of doing this the day before we are scheduled to work. Will have to go in early and try to neutralize the chlorine if it hasn't come down.