I have a suction side Pentair Great White cleaner. I have no complaints about the job it does, and replacement parts are easy to get and inexpensive. It also brushes the pool. I have a cartridge filter so cleaning the filter does not mess up my pool chemistry. However the 6 weeks of daily rain storms that we are having is!
Convince me a robot is better...
- Thread starter SoCalGuy
- Start date
I bought a Doheny Discovey last month and was not impressed with the cleaning. I felt it took longer than my Navigator to get the same amount of cleaning and seemed to mix very fine debris back into suspension. The bright blue cord across the deck was ugly as could be and a tripping hazard. Having to clean out the on-board filters every few days was no fun and the unit is heavy for my little 98 pound wife. I would much rather back flush my sand filter once a week (hands don't get wet and no bending over) than lift the robot out of the pool and deal with the garden hose and getting myself wet from back spray while flushing the filters.
I put my Hayward Navigator back in the pool and for me and my pool it is the better choice. It runs for 2 hours per day with my VSP pump and does all I need it to do except waterline cleaning. I did add the V-Flex kit to the Navigator last year and that helps at slower pump speeds and is less likely to clog on acorns and such. The robot missed much of my waterline tile and kept cleaning the same areas over and over. Robots aren't aren't for all situations.
I put my Hayward Navigator back in the pool and for me and my pool it is the better choice. It runs for 2 hours per day with my VSP pump and does all I need it to do except waterline cleaning. I did add the V-Flex kit to the Navigator last year and that helps at slower pump speeds and is less likely to clog on acorns and such. The robot missed much of my waterline tile and kept cleaning the same areas over and over. Robots aren't aren't for all situations.
This is pretty much how I fee about the Nav. Replacement parts are everywhere and don't cost very much. No delicate electronics, no cords to plug in or get twisted, doesn't need a special "caddy", stays in the water 24/7. Gets the pool "clean enough".
On a related note, the landscaping around the pool makes a big difference in cleanliness of the water. After cutting back some trees near our pool, it became much easier to keep the water chemistry in balance. And with the right balance, the pool naturally stays much cleaner and needs less vacuuming and brushing.
I ran through 3 navigators in 18 years...basically left it in the pool 4 days a week...took out when boat load of kids were in the pool. They did a decent job until parts started wearing out..which was to me...often. My pool has a lanai..doesn't get much big yard gunk, mainly spanish moss that somehow gets through the screen...and the usual stuff. I switched this year to a Pentair Dorado...scrubs with brushes..not sure how effective they really are but it does a really good job. It has way less moving parts then the Navigators. I've had it 2 months, love it, and would never go back to a Navigator mainly from the Nav having so many moving parts that are not what I call cheap!
borjis
LifeTime Supporter
I had a Navigator that came with my first house with a pool.
I left it there of course when I sold the property and the second house with a pool I live in now came with
an older one. I replaced all the worn out parts (just the cork shoes really)
It does a good job mostly, but often will spend very little time in the shallow end,
then I have to pull it over with the hose and I may end up doing that several
times for a single cleaning.
That and the setting up and priming hoses is a bit of a chore.
I bought the economically priced Dolphin E10 and it does the job better.
Just plop it in, plug it in. Done.
No more disconnecting hoses, cleaning out the inline debris canister.
I left it there of course when I sold the property and the second house with a pool I live in now came with
an older one. I replaced all the worn out parts (just the cork shoes really)
It does a good job mostly, but often will spend very little time in the shallow end,
then I have to pull it over with the hose and I may end up doing that several
times for a single cleaning.
That and the setting up and priming hoses is a bit of a chore.
I bought the economically priced Dolphin E10 and it does the job better.
Just plop it in, plug it in. Done.
No more disconnecting hoses, cleaning out the inline debris canister.
borjis - so do you plug your E10 in and leave it in the pool 24/7? Constantly taking a robot in and out is a big drawback for me.
Our Nav only refuses to go to the shallow end when the hoses get old and stiff. New hoses - and the right number - make a big difference. We don't use an inline debris canister. Never needed it.
Our Nav only refuses to go to the shallow end when the hoses get old and stiff. New hoses - and the right number - make a big difference. We don't use an inline debris canister. Never needed it.
Just got a Dolphin A30i (s300i) to replace my Pentair Rebel. The dolphin was $900 and gets stuck on the drain (and also stops for no reason sometimes), the Rebel is $500 and gets stuck on the steps (used to get stuck on the drain also until I bought special tires). Both really annoy me. I would be willing to spend a lot more if I thought there was something better but I kinda doubt anyone's perfected the technology to, um, roll over a hump. Yet, anyway.
i bought the dolphin m500
and it is one of the best things i have bought
i tell it to clean the pool whilst i go to the liquor store
by time i get home, change into bathers he is sitting there like a puppy
"did i do a good job, did i?
and it is one of the best things i have bought
i tell it to clean the pool whilst i go to the liquor store
by time i get home, change into bathers he is sitting there like a puppy
"did i do a good job, did i?
- Jul 16, 2012
- 7,206
- Pool Size
- 27000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Yes, the M series robots with the extra third brush in the middle seem to be immune from that high centering disease. My A20 does work it's way off but I can see how it might not for some given the design of the robot and of main drain covers/how high or low the plaster is around the drain cover.
See the thread below for details...
Dolphin-Supreme-M-Series-Owner's-Club
See the thread below for details...
Dolphin-Supreme-M-Series-Owner's-Club
I have this and had a heck of a time cleaning the shallow end. Do you have a deep and shallow end? I am so fed up with it I'm about to junk it and go to something else because It won't make it up the slope. It makes it half way up the slope and slowly turns and heads back down.
borjis
LifeTime Supporter
No, I take it out each time, but it's half the time it would take dealing with
the navigator and putting it away.
New hoses was just something I'd rather spend on the robot.
- Jul 16, 2012
- 7,206
- Pool Size
- 27000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
kevreh
Bronze Supporter
Cliff notes version about leaving the Dolphin in the pool;
- Maytronics, maker of Dolphin, implies you can leave them in a week at a time since you can schedule them for a week.
- At some point you need to lift them out to clean the basket and unravel the chord if needed.
- With the fixed handle, these newer Dolphins are lighter and easier to remove than the older ones.
- Some people think that leaving it in for days at a time will cause problems down the road.
- FWIW Maytronics markets these things as being easy to repair
I leave my A20 in for a couple sessions, 2 days apart or so, and remove it and clean it the 3rd time. So in any given week its in the water about half the time.
- Maytronics, maker of Dolphin, implies you can leave them in a week at a time since you can schedule them for a week.
- At some point you need to lift them out to clean the basket and unravel the chord if needed.
- With the fixed handle, these newer Dolphins are lighter and easier to remove than the older ones.
- Some people think that leaving it in for days at a time will cause problems down the road.
- FWIW Maytronics markets these things as being easy to repair
I leave my A20 in for a couple sessions, 2 days apart or so, and remove it and clean it the 3rd time. So in any given week its in the water about half the time.
Sigmabond - How deep is your deep end? Pentair doesn't recommend the Great White for pools with 6'+ deep ends.
- Nov 30, 2008
- 338
Im not convinced a robot is any better at all, and Im really not convinced they are cheaper.
They are cool though, and may solve certain problems like complex pool shapes a bit better.
Sure you can leave a bag type cleaner or an internal filter in for a week - and starts to get green and mucky and begins putting out debris and reducing free chlorine. In my case Ive never seen an internal filter that can catch the very fine dust I get- it just blows it around again.
I can run my mat type suction side cleaners on a few hundred watt, and often run them while pumping solar for no additional cost.
To me the big upside to a Robot is the ability to skim at full capacity and clean concurrently.
I get great performance from suction sides and " one piece" rebuilds for dirt money that takes seconds to change. a 3-4 year rebuild on some robots is brutal.
My complex suction side MX8-elite will have all the same replacements costs tracks, gearbox the, as a robot, but has worked great.
UD
They are cool though, and may solve certain problems like complex pool shapes a bit better.
Sure you can leave a bag type cleaner or an internal filter in for a week - and starts to get green and mucky and begins putting out debris and reducing free chlorine. In my case Ive never seen an internal filter that can catch the very fine dust I get- it just blows it around again.
I can run my mat type suction side cleaners on a few hundred watt, and often run them while pumping solar for no additional cost.
To me the big upside to a Robot is the ability to skim at full capacity and clean concurrently.
I get great performance from suction sides and " one piece" rebuilds for dirt money that takes seconds to change. a 3-4 year rebuild on some robots is brutal.
My complex suction side MX8-elite will have all the same replacements costs tracks, gearbox the, as a robot, but has worked great.
UD
kevreh
Bronze Supporter
Dave-
I don't know much about suction side cleaners, and the MX8 looks nice, but from the looks of it these are the trade-offs with them;
- They're on when the pumps on
- They put more of a load on your main pool filter by passing finer debris to them
- You have to "prime" the hose(?)
- They take up a skimmer basket
- They move around randomly
Not trying to take shots at them, just trying to understand the trade offs.
I don't know much about suction side cleaners, and the MX8 looks nice, but from the looks of it these are the trade-offs with them;
- They're on when the pumps on
- They put more of a load on your main pool filter by passing finer debris to them
- You have to "prime" the hose(?)
- They take up a skimmer basket
- They move around randomly
Not trying to take shots at them, just trying to understand the trade offs.
- Nov 30, 2008
- 338
Trade offs go both ways and aren't always the same for every situation.
I run a 24x7 cycle and solar for hours every day. It cost me nothing to run the cleaner I wouldn't pay anyway.
I would actually pay more to run a robot because I would be running 2 motors vs one.
Considering the robot can't filter out my super fine debris (or any bag type cleaner for that matter) it simply doesn't fulfill the function of getting the debris out of the pool. Id like to try a late model one though to see if their superfine filter would do it but I doubt it.
Yes you have to prime a hose, takes about 2 minutes and only to prime- yanking it apart to throw in a pool box is super fast
A robot operator has to carefully wind and unwind an electric cord that has a finite life and is much more expensive to replace, you can be fairly rough with suction hose and it will still last a long time and when it goes it is much cheaper to replace as its sectional and inert.
When you pull the robot out you have to pull and clean its filters as well adding back any time you may have saved over priming, plus the use of water.
Yes they kill the skimming action good bit but not fully - but you can still use a basket by cutting a hole in it. Mr Dgvb on you tube shows this. To me the reduced skimmer function is the only big drawback to a suction cleaner.
Robot "learning" seems wildly overstated, they can flip upside down, and get stuck, and twist cords with the best of them.
The MX 8 has a very good mechanical operating pattern that gets my pool 90% clean in 2 hours while scrubbing walls and the tile line
The mat cleaners with circular disks tend to pattern if you dont tune the weight and hose length,
The T5 with its square sail is a solid step up from the circle disk type and gets to the shallow end in minutes and climbs extremely well. Its the most impressive mat type cleaner Ive yet seen or used.
Its all good fun discussion to me I dont see it as taking shots at all.
UD
I run a 24x7 cycle and solar for hours every day. It cost me nothing to run the cleaner I wouldn't pay anyway.
I would actually pay more to run a robot because I would be running 2 motors vs one.
Considering the robot can't filter out my super fine debris (or any bag type cleaner for that matter) it simply doesn't fulfill the function of getting the debris out of the pool. Id like to try a late model one though to see if their superfine filter would do it but I doubt it.
Yes you have to prime a hose, takes about 2 minutes and only to prime- yanking it apart to throw in a pool box is super fast
A robot operator has to carefully wind and unwind an electric cord that has a finite life and is much more expensive to replace, you can be fairly rough with suction hose and it will still last a long time and when it goes it is much cheaper to replace as its sectional and inert.
When you pull the robot out you have to pull and clean its filters as well adding back any time you may have saved over priming, plus the use of water.
Yes they kill the skimming action good bit but not fully - but you can still use a basket by cutting a hole in it. Mr Dgvb on you tube shows this. To me the reduced skimmer function is the only big drawback to a suction cleaner.
Robot "learning" seems wildly overstated, they can flip upside down, and get stuck, and twist cords with the best of them.
The MX 8 has a very good mechanical operating pattern that gets my pool 90% clean in 2 hours while scrubbing walls and the tile line
The mat cleaners with circular disks tend to pattern if you dont tune the weight and hose length,
The T5 with its square sail is a solid step up from the circle disk type and gets to the shallow end in minutes and climbs extremely well. Its the most impressive mat type cleaner Ive yet seen or used.
Its all good fun discussion to me I dont see it as taking shots at all.
UD
kevreh
Bronze Supporter
Interesting. FWIW the Dolphin cleaners, at least the ones I know of, come with a pleated filter that filters the fine stuff. What state are you in? You have a LOT of solar panels! Thanks for the info. I like how the MX8's have scrubbing brushes. My annoyance with my 280 (replaced with the Dolphin A20) is that it doesn't really scrub the pool surface. In that aspect the robot is much better.
The Mr Dgvb videos show how some pools have a dedicated suction line. Wonder it you could plumb (at the equipment pad) a current pressure line to turn it into a suction line.
The Mr Dgvb videos show how some pools have a dedicated suction line. Wonder it you could plumb (at the equipment pad) a current pressure line to turn it into a suction line.
- Nov 30, 2008
- 338
I like the Dolphins, and have had dialog here with another member that showed me the fines it catches - it may work, I'm going to try to rent one from a pool store.
A polaris 360 with an ultra fine bag couldn't catch the dust neither could a sand filter. My DE did and Zeobrite I'm using now catches it though.
Im in So Cal. I live about 1/3 a mile away from the 10/405 interchange one of the busiest in the world and have a tremendous amount of very fine dust that falls on the pool which is one reason I run a 23-24x7 low slow pump run.
Better to skim it off than try to get it off the bottom later.
Because Im on the West side its between 15 and 25 degrees cooler here than in the valley and ALWAYS cold at night, and often cloudy later due to the marine layer.
Its nothing to lose 10-12 degrees at night. If I lived in the valley I could get away with 8 or ten panels easy. I had the roof length for a run of 12 so I maxed it out.
The MX 8 scrubs really well, and with reversible brushes that will no doubt will last a long time, its the gearboxes and tracks Im concerned about.
Some manufacturers and poster claim that rollers rolling over the bottom is a "scrubber".
To me a "scrubber" works independently of the drive system.
The dedicated suction line thats valved is a pretty cool add on, probably wouldn't take that much to add it at the pad, but getting it to the pool and installing there sounds like a pain.
UD
A polaris 360 with an ultra fine bag couldn't catch the dust neither could a sand filter. My DE did and Zeobrite I'm using now catches it though.
Im in So Cal. I live about 1/3 a mile away from the 10/405 interchange one of the busiest in the world and have a tremendous amount of very fine dust that falls on the pool which is one reason I run a 23-24x7 low slow pump run.
Better to skim it off than try to get it off the bottom later.
Because Im on the West side its between 15 and 25 degrees cooler here than in the valley and ALWAYS cold at night, and often cloudy later due to the marine layer.
Its nothing to lose 10-12 degrees at night. If I lived in the valley I could get away with 8 or ten panels easy. I had the roof length for a run of 12 so I maxed it out.
The MX 8 scrubs really well, and with reversible brushes that will no doubt will last a long time, its the gearboxes and tracks Im concerned about.
Some manufacturers and poster claim that rollers rolling over the bottom is a "scrubber".
To me a "scrubber" works independently of the drive system.
The dedicated suction line thats valved is a pretty cool add on, probably wouldn't take that much to add it at the pad, but getting it to the pool and installing there sounds like a pain.
UD
There are some things that go around the main drain that are supposed to help that, none of them look super promising and they aren't cheap. There are I believe some robots that have wheels on the bottom that are supposed to help it too. It also depends on the cleaner itself. My dolphin would get stuck at the new house on the main drain, my new smartpool cleaner gets stuck but will work its way off in 30 seconds or so.