What it sequestering agent. Also this is what I find when I tried to look for the algicide Kem-Tek KTK-50-0006 Pool and Spa 60-Percent. Any thoughts on this stuff?
Cleaning Stained Steps
- Thread starter curtisimo81
- Start date
Sorry about the double post. The first one didn't seem to work. But I guess it did.
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- May 23, 2015
- 24,440
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Curtis,
Since you have a vinyl liner pool, you may be able to try ProTeam's Metal Magic. It doesn't require you to drop the pH (in fact, I think you have to raise it to a minimum of 7.5) and I believe it works even with small amounts of chlorine in the water. You should PM TFP user swampwoman as she has tons of experience with metal staining and has probably tried every metal treatment process out there.
Matt
Since you have a vinyl liner pool, you may be able to try ProTeam's Metal Magic. It doesn't require you to drop the pH (in fact, I think you have to raise it to a minimum of 7.5) and I believe it works even with small amounts of chlorine in the water. You should PM TFP user swampwoman as she has tons of experience with metal staining and has probably tried every metal treatment process out there.
Matt
Hi Curtis.
I hate the AA treatment too and don't blame you a bit for not wanting to do it, as I was in your shoes once
So, if you're willing to experiment, I will tell you what I do instead to handle iron staining, which I'm 100% confident that is.
But bear in mind this is not the "official" preferred treatment of TFP, okay?
First, download this PDF to do the sponge test -- its easy, especially since you'll test on the steps. It will give you a ballpark idea of how much Metal Magic it will take to lift the stains.
http://www.proteampoolcare.com/images/uploads/MetalMagicSpongeTest.pdf
Metal Magic is a metal sequestrant that will prevent stainng from iron. It does wear off over time, but in my experience, once you do the levels according to the sponge test, you will only need to add a little once a month. If you cent find any locally, its also sold online at Pool Chemicals, Hot Tub Chemicals and Supplies | Pool Geek
If you're NOT on well and the iron is from the swamp sludge, over time with backwashing if you have a sand filter, you will slowly be reducing the iron level. Once its below .3 ppm, it won't stain.
If you are on well, I'll give you more tips later but I'm on a quick break from work right now because Matt asked me to chim in
Hope that helps!
I hate the AA treatment too and don't blame you a bit for not wanting to do it, as I was in your shoes once
So, if you're willing to experiment, I will tell you what I do instead to handle iron staining, which I'm 100% confident that is.
But bear in mind this is not the "official" preferred treatment of TFP, okay?
First, download this PDF to do the sponge test -- its easy, especially since you'll test on the steps. It will give you a ballpark idea of how much Metal Magic it will take to lift the stains.
http://www.proteampoolcare.com/images/uploads/MetalMagicSpongeTest.pdf
Metal Magic is a metal sequestrant that will prevent stainng from iron. It does wear off over time, but in my experience, once you do the levels according to the sponge test, you will only need to add a little once a month. If you cent find any locally, its also sold online at Pool Chemicals, Hot Tub Chemicals and Supplies | Pool Geek
If you're NOT on well and the iron is from the swamp sludge, over time with backwashing if you have a sand filter, you will slowly be reducing the iron level. Once its below .3 ppm, it won't stain.
If you are on well, I'll give you more tips later but I'm on a quick break from work right now because Matt asked me to chim in
Hope that helps!
Will that take the metal out of the pool? I really think its caused from all the garbage the pool stores had me putting in the pool. I have a few containers of the algicides and they all have cooper in them. So I'm wondering if its copper staining. Also no I'm not on a well. I have city water.Hi Curtis.
I hate the AA treatment too and don't blame you a bit for not wanting to do it, as I was in your shoes once
So, if you're willing to experiment, I will tell you what I do instead to handle iron staining, which I'm 100% confident that is.
But bear in mind this is not the "official" preferred treatment of TFP, okay?
First, download this PDF to do the sponge test -- its easy, especially since you'll test on the steps. It will give you a ballpark idea of how much Metal Magic it will take to lift the stains.
http://www.proteampoolcare.com/images/uploads/MetalMagicSpongeTest.pdf
Metal Magic is a metal sequestrant that will prevent stainng from iron. It does wear off over time, but in my experience, once you do the levels according to the sponge test, you will only need to add a little once a month. If you cent find any locally, its also sold online at Pool Chemicals, Hot Tub Chemicals and Supplies | Pool Geek
If you're NOT on well and the iron is from the swamp sludge, over time with backwashing if you have a sand filter, you will slowly be reducing the iron level. Once its below .3 ppm, it won't stain.
If you are on well, I'll give you more tips later but I'm on a quick break from work right now because Matt asked me to chim in
Hope that helps!
- May 23, 2015
- 24,440
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Metal is only removed from the water through water exchange - fresh water replaces pool water. The chemicals above will only sequester, or hold, the metals in solution so they do not scale/stain. The sequestrant chemicals hold onto the metal but can be broken down over time by chlorine and thereby release the metals they hold in solution. This is why Swampwoman mentioned the need for maintenance dosing.
You city water should be relatively metal free. Most municipal water supplies have to put out reports (by federal law) detailing the levels of contaminants in the water. Unfortunately, iron is not considered a contaminant and is therefore exempt from reporting. Copper, on the hand, is considered a contaminant and therefore should be low.
If you used copper based algaecides, then you likely have copper in your pool water. Until enough of the water is diluted and exchanged, copper in excess of 0.3ppm can stain vinyl surfaces although it is less common to stain vinyl than it is plaster. Your fiberglass steps will be more prone to staining.
- Jun 12, 2011
- 3,765
- Pool Size
- 19500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pureline Crystal Pure 60,000
Well then if ironies usually brown then I guess I have iron. Lol. I'm just going to to the AA treatment. I found a 3lb bad on Amazon for like $30.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sounds like good pricing. We WILL get you through this!
Make sure to have all the ingredients you need on hand before you start. Ascorbic acid, muriatic acid, polyquat 60, and sequestrate. You have a window to buy either borax or washing soda as needed depending on your TA.
Make sure to have all the ingredients you need on hand before you start. Ascorbic acid, muriatic acid, polyquat 60, and sequestrate. You have a window to buy either borax or washing soda as needed depending on your TA.
Thank you. I have everything coming except sequestrate. What is that?
There are a lot of brand names but what you want is HEDP, (1- Hydroxyethylidene 1,1-diphosphonic acid). Jack's Magic Pink Stuff is a popular brand.
- - - Updated - - -
Sequestrant. Sorry. Must have had fat fingers!
- - - Updated - - -
Sequestrant. Sorry. Must have had fat fingers!
Lol. Ok so the sequestrant is just the metal killer stuff... Well I think I'm going to have to wait to do the AA treatment. Looks like we may be having some nasty weather here the next couple of days. I think I either wait or I just turn my SWG off and go ahead and do it. If I get algae just have to do another slam. I can't see a slam lasting near as long as it did. I really want to the pool to be open by next month. Right now my pool water temp is 74. So its swimmable as far a temp today. lol Any thoughts on what I should do?
I also need to check to make sure I have muriatic acid. I'm sure I have some left from last year. But I need to check. Other than that I have everything except the sequestrant. My local pool store has some but its cheaper online. Oh well...lol
I also need to check to make sure I have muriatic acid. I'm sure I have some left from last year. But I need to check. Other than that I have everything except the sequestrant. My local pool store has some but its cheaper online. Oh well...lol
I wish it WAS metal "killer"!!!! What it does is put the metals into solution. That's all. They are still there.
As for timing, my thoughts are to wait, order oine, and then go for it after the storms.
As for timing, my thoughts are to wait, order oine, and then go for it after the storms.
smforte
0
Curtis....sequestrants acutally hold the metals together after you do the AA treatment. You have to be careful that you don't get your FC too high or they will be released back into the water again and restain. Try to avoid a slam if possible after the treatment or you'll be back to square one with the metals.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,440
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Curtis,
The others have given you good advice - if you can't do the job as it is outlined in that thread for removing metal stains, then wait until you can do it right! Half-measures will never lead to positive results. All parts of that process are inter-connected and carefully calibrated to yield a good result.
Lowering the FC is absolutely essentially because chlorine and ascorbic acid neutralize one another.
The lowering the pH and adding ascorbic acid is is required to get the metal from it's solid, insoluble form (the stain) to it's soluble, ionic form.
Adding the Polyquat-60 (quaternary ammonium algaecide) is absolutely essential to holding the algae at bay when your FC drops below the minimum required levels.
Adding the metal sequestrant (also known as a chelating agent) is absolutely essential because the metal ion that is now back in solution really does not want to stay in solution at the pH of normal pool water. So the sequestrant is a chemical that binds to the metal ion and holds it in solution.
Raising the pH and FC back up slowly and not having to shock your pool for two weeks is absolutely essential because chlorine oxidizes and destroys most chelating/sequestering agents. Ascorbic acid is actually a sequestrant for metals, it's just a very lousy one at neutral pH and in the presence of any oxidizer (like chlorine). HEDP sequestrants are much more stable than EDTA based sequestrants at neutral pH and in the presence of chlorine. Polyacrylic Acid (PAA) based sequestrants are the best and last the longest but are unfortunately very hard to find. But whatever sequestrant you do use, it is absolutely essential to the process.
This process also takes time and concerted effort. So just like in the beginning of a SLAM when you have to babysit your pool water as it is destroying algae, so too you have to babysit your pool (initially) when doing this process. It requires time (maybe a full weekend), patience and persistence to get it right. There are no short-cuts and no cutting corners on this.
So, when you gather the raw materials and you can spend time doing it, only then should you proceed.
Good luck,
Matt
The others have given you good advice - if you can't do the job as it is outlined in that thread for removing metal stains, then wait until you can do it right! Half-measures will never lead to positive results. All parts of that process are inter-connected and carefully calibrated to yield a good result.
Lowering the FC is absolutely essentially because chlorine and ascorbic acid neutralize one another.
The lowering the pH and adding ascorbic acid is is required to get the metal from it's solid, insoluble form (the stain) to it's soluble, ionic form.
Adding the Polyquat-60 (quaternary ammonium algaecide) is absolutely essential to holding the algae at bay when your FC drops below the minimum required levels.
Adding the metal sequestrant (also known as a chelating agent) is absolutely essential because the metal ion that is now back in solution really does not want to stay in solution at the pH of normal pool water. So the sequestrant is a chemical that binds to the metal ion and holds it in solution.
Raising the pH and FC back up slowly and not having to shock your pool for two weeks is absolutely essential because chlorine oxidizes and destroys most chelating/sequestering agents. Ascorbic acid is actually a sequestrant for metals, it's just a very lousy one at neutral pH and in the presence of any oxidizer (like chlorine). HEDP sequestrants are much more stable than EDTA based sequestrants at neutral pH and in the presence of chlorine. Polyacrylic Acid (PAA) based sequestrants are the best and last the longest but are unfortunately very hard to find. But whatever sequestrant you do use, it is absolutely essential to the process.
This process also takes time and concerted effort. So just like in the beginning of a SLAM when you have to babysit your pool water as it is destroying algae, so too you have to babysit your pool (initially) when doing this process. It requires time (maybe a full weekend), patience and persistence to get it right. There are no short-cuts and no cutting corners on this.
So, when you gather the raw materials and you can spend time doing it, only then should you proceed.
Good luck,
Matt
- Jun 12, 2011
- 3,765
- Pool Size
- 19500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pureline Crystal Pure 60,000
Just a silly thought. If his staining is confined to only the fiberglass steps, what would prevent damming off the steps and only treating that area? A few vitamin C tablets produced some dramatically white areas overnight. Wouldn't a slightly larger approach solve most of his problem?