cleaned out de filter but......
- Thread starter surfbabe
- Start date
No ideas?
I guess I'll take out the filter and hose it down, check for blockages where I can. Put it back together and run it. See what happens.
I guess I'll take out the filter and hose it down, check for blockages where I can. Put it back together and run it. See what happens.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,718
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I still think it's a suction-side blockage. It wasn't totally clear to me but on the suction side of the pump, what does the three-way valve control? You said you have two skimmers. Do you have a main drain?
If it is suction side blockage, then the pipes have to be snaked or pressures blown with a drain king. That requires removing the Jandy actuator and then disassembling the three way valve. You then attach the drain king to a garden hose and stick it into the pipe. The water bladder of the drain king will fill up and create a tight seal thus allowing the water from the hose to fill up the PVC line and force any blockages backwards. I had a mesquite tree once that totally clogged up my vacuum line when my suction cleaner ran without a leaf trap. I had to use a Drain King to blowback the line.
If it is suction side blockage, then the pipes have to be snaked or pressures blown with a drain king. That requires removing the Jandy actuator and then disassembling the three way valve. You then attach the drain king to a garden hose and stick it into the pipe. The water bladder of the drain king will fill up and create a tight seal thus allowing the water from the hose to fill up the PVC line and force any blockages backwards. I had a mesquite tree once that totally clogged up my vacuum line when my suction cleaner ran without a leaf trap. I had to use a Drain King to blowback the line.
The 3 way valve on the suction side controls the spa. It stops the water coming from the pool skimmer and sucks it from the spa. I tried running the spa yesterday to see if that made a difference. It didn't. Considering this, I deduced that the issue is not the suction side but the filter. Surely if the blockage came from the pool with the actuator valve switched over to the spa piping, it would have been ok and filtered?
I have 2 skimmers and a main drain. Not quite sure when the main drain gets used though. Since the water comes through the skimmers for backwashing/draining/regular filtration.
I have no idea how to remove the actuator or how to disassemble a 3 way valve. Is there anyway to do this without having to go through all that?
Is the filter ok? Is it normal to see DE all over the top like that?
I have 2 skimmers and a main drain. Not quite sure when the main drain gets used though. Since the water comes through the skimmers for backwashing/draining/regular filtration.
I have no idea how to remove the actuator or how to disassemble a 3 way valve. Is there anyway to do this without having to go through all that?
Is the filter ok? Is it normal to see DE all over the top like that?
- May 23, 2015
- 25,718
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Yes, that's what the DE looks like...although there is a lot of it in there now. But your filter should be fine. Let me see if I get your picture right - there are three pipes coming up out of the ground on the POOL side of the suction line and each pipe has it's own shut-off valve. Is that correct?
If you don't want to open the valve up (it's actually a lot easier than it looks), you can go through the pump basket. Turn off the pump and cut the breaker for it (to be safe). Open the pump basket lid and stick the drain king plus hose into the suction pipe as far as it can go (try to get past that screw union if you can). Then, with the three way valve as it is now, close off all but one skimmer using the shutoff valves. Turn on your garden hose full blast (helps to have a friend) and let the bladder of the drain king seal up the pipe and force water down each suction line. Have someone, if you can, watch the skimmers and the main drain to see if gunk gets blown out of it. Good water pressure and a tight bladder seal is key so you might have to finagle the drain king a couple of time to get it right. Some people will even wrap a gym sock around the drain king to help create a good seal.
The only issue is the three way valve might let a little water from the garden hose sneak into the spa and thus rob the process of a little water pressure. Hopefully it's not too much and you can give each line a real good back flush.
If you don't want to open the valve up (it's actually a lot easier than it looks), you can go through the pump basket. Turn off the pump and cut the breaker for it (to be safe). Open the pump basket lid and stick the drain king plus hose into the suction pipe as far as it can go (try to get past that screw union if you can). Then, with the three way valve as it is now, close off all but one skimmer using the shutoff valves. Turn on your garden hose full blast (helps to have a friend) and let the bladder of the drain king seal up the pipe and force water down each suction line. Have someone, if you can, watch the skimmers and the main drain to see if gunk gets blown out of it. Good water pressure and a tight bladder seal is key so you might have to finagle the drain king a couple of time to get it right. Some people will even wrap a gym sock around the drain king to help create a good seal.
The only issue is the three way valve might let a little water from the garden hose sneak into the spa and thus rob the process of a little water pressure. Hopefully it's not too much and you can give each line a real good back flush.
Hi Matt,
I took out the filter and noticed 2 things.
1. The DE was only on the top of the filter and not really anywhere else. I've hosed it down.
2.The bottom of the filter housing was completely covered in a DE slurry. The drainage for the filter was blocked. I took handfuls of it and it has half-filled a bucket. I've hosed down the filter housing so that it is now clear.
Was any of that normal?
I took out the filter and noticed 2 things.
1. The DE was only on the top of the filter and not really anywhere else. I've hosed it down.
2.The bottom of the filter housing was completely covered in a DE slurry. The drainage for the filter was blocked. I took handfuls of it and it has half-filled a bucket. I've hosed down the filter housing so that it is now clear.
Was any of that normal?
"there are three pipes coming up out of the ground on the POOL side of the suction line and each pipe has it's own shut-off valve. Is that correct?"
yes, that's correct.
I'm just about to put the filter back together again and see what happens. Currently there's a downpour so I'm going to wait until that has passed. Then switch on and see what happens.
yes, that's correct.
I'm just about to put the filter back together again and see what happens. Currently there's a downpour so I'm going to wait until that has passed. Then switch on and see what happens.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,718
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
What you report sounds normal. I'm not as familiar with the Hayward filters but it is the case that DE, especially fresh DE, can build up in the bottom of the tank. My Pentair filter is designed so that the input water into the filter body is directed downward so as to agitate any DE slurry.
Let us know how it goes. The drain king snaking is not really that hard or complicated. Just easier to do when it's not raining and you can get a friend to help.
Let us know how it goes. The drain king snaking is not really that hard or complicated. Just easier to do when it's not raining and you can get a friend to help.
Matt, I put the filter back together and it made no difference. Once again I ran the filter to see if I could get it to prime. I couldn't. I ran it in normal mode then in "spa" mode - ie it is taking water from the spa. No joy.
I've taken a photograph of the 3 pipes coming from the 2 pool skimmers and the waste and it shows the 4th intake which is the spa. Here's why I wonder about the suction side blockage. Since the pump is not taking water from either the spa or the pool ( I can isolate the two), then surely if there is a blockage then it is after the jandy actuator and valve? ie. in that 10 inches of pipe between the jandy valve and the inlet into the pump basket?
Here is the photo showing the 4 pipes and the valve. The spa is the pipe on the far left in the photo
I have investigated the impeller as much as I can, is there anyway to check that out without actually taking things apart?
I have also cleaned and re-greased the "O" ring on the pump basket just to make sure there is no air leak from that. I noticed whilst I was waiting for the pump to prime that there were a few air bubbles coming out of the returns but they did that even after I had re-done the "O" ring.
Teens are now back home so could ask them for help with the drainking.
I've taken a photograph of the 3 pipes coming from the 2 pool skimmers and the waste and it shows the 4th intake which is the spa. Here's why I wonder about the suction side blockage. Since the pump is not taking water from either the spa or the pool ( I can isolate the two), then surely if there is a blockage then it is after the jandy actuator and valve? ie. in that 10 inches of pipe between the jandy valve and the inlet into the pump basket?
Here is the photo showing the 4 pipes and the valve. The spa is the pipe on the far left in the photo
I have investigated the impeller as much as I can, is there anyway to check that out without actually taking things apart?
I have also cleaned and re-greased the "O" ring on the pump basket just to make sure there is no air leak from that. I noticed whilst I was waiting for the pump to prime that there were a few air bubbles coming out of the returns but they did that even after I had re-done the "O" ring.
Teens are now back home so could ask them for help with the drainking.
I've stuck the drain king into the pipe from the pump basket. Did everything as described above, I could feel the water coming up through both skimmers although it wasn't very powerful.
There are air bubbles coming in from the second return - not the first one - when I leave the filter running. I left it running for quite while and the bubbles continued without stopping. Does this mean i have a leak somewhere?
Tomorrow I will attempt to take off the actuator valve and try the drain king from there. Maybe it's the valve that's clogged? Or maybe that is leaking?
There are air bubbles coming in from the second return - not the first one - when I leave the filter running. I left it running for quite while and the bubbles continued without stopping. Does this mean i have a leak somewhere?
Tomorrow I will attempt to take off the actuator valve and try the drain king from there. Maybe it's the valve that's clogged? Or maybe that is leaking?
- May 23, 2015
- 25,718
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Always worth a shot looking into the valves. I wonder, is your multiport valve set correctly and, if it's not too much trouble, maybe you should open up the multiport valve and see if there's any blockage in there.
Also, do this - put the system into SPA mode (suction and return set to spa). Open up the pump basket and use your garden hose to fill up the pump. Then close the cover quickly and turn on the pump. See if it operates normally.
Also, do this - put the system into SPA mode (suction and return set to spa). Open up the pump basket and use your garden hose to fill up the pump. Then close the cover quickly and turn on the pump. See if it operates normally.
Matt, doing the spa thing, I assume that's to see if it will prime and therefore test for a leak?
I wish I was doing all this a few weeks ago when the weather was much more pleasant.......
I wish I was doing all this a few weeks ago when the weather was much more pleasant.......
- May 23, 2015
- 25,718
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Matt,
I tried to get as much water as I could in the pump basket and ran the spa filter. It didn't prime and there were air bubbles coming out of the returns in the spa. Same with the pool.
So, since I didn't use the spa pipes with the manual vacuum they won't have been blocked by debris. With both spa and pool failing to get a prime and both getting air bubbles I guess there is a suction side leak either at the valve or after it?
I will check the spa/pool valve today as well as the MPV. Since I'll be taking them apart anyway, I might as well get "O" ring for the valve and maybe a gasket for the mpv and replace them.
sound ok?
cheers x
I tried to get as much water as I could in the pump basket and ran the spa filter. It didn't prime and there were air bubbles coming out of the returns in the spa. Same with the pool.
So, since I didn't use the spa pipes with the manual vacuum they won't have been blocked by debris. With both spa and pool failing to get a prime and both getting air bubbles I guess there is a suction side leak either at the valve or after it?
I will check the spa/pool valve today as well as the MPV. Since I'll be taking them apart anyway, I might as well get "O" ring for the valve and maybe a gasket for the mpv and replace them.
sound ok?
cheers x
- May 23, 2015
- 25,718
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Can redo the spa test with the MPV in recirculate mode? Takes the filter out of the equation.
Made no difference in re-circulate mode.
On the other hand, that MPV was a real pig to move round, even just going from normal to waste to backwash was much harder than normal. Would that cause the problems?
On the other hand, that MPV was a real pig to move round, even just going from normal to waste to backwash was much harder than normal. Would that cause the problems?
- May 23, 2015
- 25,718
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
No idea. I've never had a multiport valve. Definitely worth opening it up to see what's going on.
I am sitting here with all my fingers and toes crossed!
I appear to have resolved the problem!
I gave in and called my almost ex-husband to ask if he had any ideas or could help me. You have no idea how much pride I had to swallow to do that. He said to make sure the impeller was clear - and to use one of the metal tent pegs to really get in there. I said I had already used something else and it seemed fine. BUT I went back with a tent peg and there was indeed a blockage that I hadn't been able to feel before. Water is now flowing well.
I had kept the DE slurry so I've put that back in the skimmer as a start.. The pool is now so gross that I think I will clear the debris of leaves with a scoop and the polaris. Then it will need bleach to stop it getting greener than it already is. I'll have a go with the manual vacuum tomorrow once the debris has gone and at this point I may well need to backwash the filter.
Thanks Matt for your help so far. Fingers crossed please.
I appear to have resolved the problem!
I gave in and called my almost ex-husband to ask if he had any ideas or could help me. You have no idea how much pride I had to swallow to do that. He said to make sure the impeller was clear - and to use one of the metal tent pegs to really get in there. I said I had already used something else and it seemed fine. BUT I went back with a tent peg and there was indeed a blockage that I hadn't been able to feel before. Water is now flowing well.
I had kept the DE slurry so I've put that back in the skimmer as a start.. The pool is now so gross that I think I will clear the debris of leaves with a scoop and the polaris. Then it will need bleach to stop it getting greener than it already is. I'll have a go with the manual vacuum tomorrow once the debris has gone and at this point I may well need to backwash the filter.
Thanks Matt for your help so far. Fingers crossed please.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,718
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Well, that's good news! (sorry about the swallowing pride part, but we all have to do it sometime...) I will indeed keep some finger's crossed.
One thing I find with recharging my DE filter is that I always go at it slowly. I don't backwash as I really only need to tear down the filter twice a year to keep it happy. So when I put it all back together it requires 10lbs of DE to fully charge it. I typically add two scoops (2 lbs) of DE to a 5 gallon bucket of water, mix the slurry with my hands and then very, very, very slowly pour the slurry mixture into the skimmer with the pump running at full speed. I repeat that process five times and it takes a good 15 to 20 mins for me to recharge the filter. I then leave the pump running for 24 hours to ensure that the quad grids are fully coated and the DE is sticking to them. One thing I was warned about early on with DE filters is to never dump powdered DE straight into the skimmer or else you risk a clog somewhere in the suction line. In your case, the clog happened in the impeller. And, it doesn't take much to clog up an impeller and completely kill the pumps ability to move water. I once had an impeller partially clogged with a few mesquite needles (they are very tough and fibrous and don't break down from chlorine exposure).
Let us know how it goes and I hope your green pool clears quickly. If you are experiencing algae and need to SLAM the pool, just be advised that the DE filter will load up quickly with dead algae so you may be backwashing quite a bit.
One thing I find with recharging my DE filter is that I always go at it slowly. I don't backwash as I really only need to tear down the filter twice a year to keep it happy. So when I put it all back together it requires 10lbs of DE to fully charge it. I typically add two scoops (2 lbs) of DE to a 5 gallon bucket of water, mix the slurry with my hands and then very, very, very slowly pour the slurry mixture into the skimmer with the pump running at full speed. I repeat that process five times and it takes a good 15 to 20 mins for me to recharge the filter. I then leave the pump running for 24 hours to ensure that the quad grids are fully coated and the DE is sticking to them. One thing I was warned about early on with DE filters is to never dump powdered DE straight into the skimmer or else you risk a clog somewhere in the suction line. In your case, the clog happened in the impeller. And, it doesn't take much to clog up an impeller and completely kill the pumps ability to move water. I once had an impeller partially clogged with a few mesquite needles (they are very tough and fibrous and don't break down from chlorine exposure).
Let us know how it goes and I hope your green pool clears quickly. If you are experiencing algae and need to SLAM the pool, just be advised that the DE filter will load up quickly with dead algae so you may be backwashing quite a bit.
It sounds like this is a recurring issue since your ex knew what to do. I suspect that the basket is floating up at times allowing debris to get around the basket. Put a medium sized rock in the basket to keep it from floating up.
Normally, that basket has a handle that loops up and touches the lid, which keeps the basket down. The handle is missing, so the basket is likely to float.
Normally, that basket has a handle that loops up and touches the lid, which keeps the basket down. The handle is missing, so the basket is likely to float.