Circulation, Dead Spots & Eyeball Direction

[WOLLAM]

Hello All,
Thank you in advance for any and all suggestions. Relative newbie just trying to get a firm grip on circulation in attempt to avoid dead spots and increase skimming action of the pool surface. The pool design, return/intake placement, etc was not my choice as the pool was here when we bought the home. Please reference the attached diagram (as crude as it is, and not to scale).
Before I started messing with eyeballs, etc the circulation counter-clockwise & ok at best. Dirt, leaves, etc would tend to find their way to the pool floor near the spa alcove. Additionally anything that could float (thermometer, tab dispenser, toys would eventually find their way to the waterfall and not be able to escape. Also, of the three returns only the one closest to the spa was directional. It looks like a bottle cap with a slit, and the slit is angled down, away from the waterfall.
Next, we had a pool repair come to look at the light and he suggested I replace the return closest to the steps with an eyeball to increase the flow/pressure of all returns (including the spa), thus improving circulation. This did not improve circulation in that the dead spot was still present and skimming did not improve. The only that improved was water coming out of the returns (the spa too) seemed to come out with more force.
FYI - the return closest to the steps is closest to the pump and seems to be the "main"return. Also, on the diagram, the pump is approximately 6'-8' to the left of the skimmer.
At this point I tried to adjust the direction of the returns but to no avail. I am hoping someone can provide some insight on what type of return coverings I should use and where to point them, or simply let them shoot straight into the pool. Sadly I am beginning to think the pool design (alcove away from the main return) will prohibit much improvement. The main return does have enough force to reach the opposite side of the pool.
So, thank you VERY MUCH to anyone that has taken the time to read this. I am very grateful for any input.
BE SAFE !!
WOLLAM

 

[Dirk]

Hi, and welcome to TFP. There will be others along in a bit that can answer some of that better than me. But in advance, it might be helpful for us to know: can any of the current fixtures on the returns be unscrewed? Ideally, they'll come out and there will be a 1.5" PVC female thread embedded in the finish. It might also be helpful to have a better idea about your pool and the installed equipment. Have a look at my signature for an example: type of finish, above-ground or in-ground, pump model, filter model and what other things are running off your plumbing might all come into play.

Is there a prevailing wind? You might indicate that on your drawing. Wind can be a huge factor in the efficiency of your skimmer.

You'll be asked about your skimmer's weir door. Does it have one? Is it functioning properly?

 

[Dirk]

Also, a picture of your equipment pad will be helpful. Depending on how your plumbing was done, returns can be converted to vacuum ports, and vice versa. Do you use your vacuum port? Or have you considered a robot for cleaning? If you have, or are willing to have a robot do your cleaning, then it's possible your vacuum port can be converted to another return, which could be used to enhance circulation. Does your main drain plumb to your skimmer, or is their a dedicated valve for it back at the pad? A picture of your pad will likely give us clues about some possibilities.

 

[Dirk]

I had to download your PDF to see your diagram (which is great, by the way). But more folks here will be able to view it if you convert the PDF to an image, like a JPEG.

 

[WOLLAM]

I had to download your PDF to see your diagram (which is great, by the way). But more folks here will be able to view it if you convert the PDF to an image, like a JPEG.

Hello Dirk,
Thank you so much for the quick response. I am already at work for the night but I will attend to your suggestions first thing tomorrow morning. I do know that the "main" return fixture does come out but is NOT threaded. The return closest to the waterfall comes out and is threaded. I have never check the return opposite the skimmer. Thanks again and I will have the requested info tomorrow morning.
WOLLAM

 

[Dirk]

My pool, which is only a few years old, did not have threaded returns for some reason, but I had them converted to threaded during a recent replaster and then screwed in the adjustable "eyeballs" that allow full directional adjustments. Circulation and skimming improved. So anything is possible!

 

[mas985]

Deleted

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

I've wondered whether eyeball direction really mattered. I have 5 returns which I can point. I currently have them pointed in a circular counter-clockwise pattern.

The issue is that more than 2 or 3 feet away from any return, I can't feel any water movement with my hand. At all. It's just too weak and my pool is big. So does it really matter which way the returns point in a big pool?

 

[Dirk]

I'm sure every pool is different. I have three returns and they definitely drive the water around. It's easy enough to prove for each pool. Throw in some ping pong balls on a windless day and fool with your returns. See which adjustments best drive them to the skimmer.

If you have each return line on its own valve, those would come into play, too. If not, I believe there are eyeballs with different diameter openings that can be used to adjust the amount of flow of each return independently.

There's physics behind all this, of course, which you can use as a head start, but in the end it's just a matter of trial and error. Same for pump runtimes and rpms. You just keep adjusting everything until you get your pool the way you want it. Though there might be tradeoffs between best circulation for cold spots vs chlorine distribution vs skimming, etc.

 

[WOLLAM]

Hello Again,
So here is the requested updates/information...hope it helps. My signature has been updated to reflect the particulars recommended by Dirk (Thank You).
To answer the other questions:
The fixtures on all three returns into the pool are removable. The "returns" in the spa are simply outlets...there are no fixtures of any kind. In effect, they dump air & water into the spa.
Wind - Although the beach is 1.5 miles (as the crow flies) to the east we have minimal wind. When we do have wind it most often comes from the east.
Yes, the skimmer does have a weir door. However, it does not have the "float/foam" material in the door.
The vacuum port is noted on the diagram and I use it 2-3 days a week.
All intakes (skimmer, drain, vacuum) have a dedicated valve leading to the pump/filter and can be adjusted.
The main return line from the filter has an adjustable valve. I can set the the return to go completely to the spa or the pool, or any partial setting in between.
I have also attached the requested photos of the equipment pad and a jpg of the pool diagram.
Again...Thank you in advance to everyone who provides some insight.
WOLLAM

 

[Dirk]

OK, you got all the ingredients. We just need a cook! So here's a bump to see if we can get another Member to chime in... Shoot me a PM if nobody comes-a-callin'...

 

[WOLLAM]

Hello All,

Sorry for the delay. After weeks of reading, talking to pool stores, neighborhood pool guys, etc. I have come to the conclusion of two things.
1 - I am going to go with ping-pong balls and trial-and-error on eyeball direction to get (hopefully) the best flow and circulation
2 - Regardless of the outcome of the ping-pong balls, I need to add a piece of foam to the weir door

I will post results of ping-pong balls tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks for all the help

 

[Dirk]

Once you sort out the circulation, we hope you'll stick around and see what TFP is really all about. Not just pool mechanics, we teach a method of pool care that is the absolute best and least expensive. We have a couple hundred thousand members that can attest that is not too good to be true, despite how it sounds. Good luck with the pool!