Chlorine, ozonator and THE SMELL

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C

CeeElGee78

0
Sep 19, 2018
47
Kokomo, IN
Pool Size
14500
Thank you to everyone who helped me get off the ground a few weeks ago. Now it's time to fine-tune this relic as much as I can. First and foremost, I have to try and get a handle on that classic hot-tub "smell" that irritates my wife's sensitive olfactory senses (because ultimately, that's who this is for and all about, right?). I'm extremely confident and well versed in TFP techniques regarding pools, and my pools have been spotless and non-irritating to even the most sensitive of swimmers. But this hot tub, which gave off a chlorine/bromine (I found their stash of tablets) odor even before we filled it, is giving me fits. Both in terms of the smell bothering her and my inability to keep ahead of the chlorine use (I followed to the letter the sticky instructions on dichlor to chlorine). I just want us to be able to enjoy the spa without it irritating anyone.

And now I'm seeing information about a possible negative interaction between chlorine and an ozonator, which I believe I have but I have no indication if/when it works because I have no manual left by the previous owner. But I see labels on the internal workings that say ozone, and some online schematics include info about an ozonator (Jacuzzi model Z145). Could this interaction between the two be the cause of excess irritants or my low FC levels? Would disconnecting the ozonator be a good idea?
 
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The ozone will go after the CCs first, then when they are gone it will consume any FC. You should measure FC before the ozone cycle starts and after to see how much FC the cycle causes FC to drop. Do this one night with no use to see your loss.

I have ozone also and keep my FC higher than the top of the target range to allow for the loss overnight. Mine cycle runs from midnight to 8am.
 
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Not saying there aren’t simply some smells that are imbedded in the spa’s materials that may honestly never fully go away but…
The majority of smells are likely from too little fc not too much. Be sure to let the tub “air out” after use & dosing to allow any cc’s created to escape.
Being proactive with fc dosing is much better than being reactive if that makes sense. Better to anticipate the fc need in advance than run too short and try to make up for it later (which doesn’t work well)
Nasty Things happen quickly in a spa environment- it can feel a little bipolar compared to a swimming pool which is fairly stable since the bather load ratio is high.
1 person in my little spa is like 100 people being in my big pool.
You’ll get the hang of it. Sure your bets with more fc. Don’t worry, it will get used up.
All the way up to slam level is ok (generally not quite necessary but ok)
but too little fc & you’ll have problems quick.
 
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JoeSelf said:
The ozone will go after the CCs first, then when they are gone it will consume any FC. You should measure FC before the ozone cycle starts and after to see how much FC the cycle causes FC to drop. Do this one night with no use to see your loss.

I have ozone also and keep my FC higher than the top of the target range to allow for the loss overnight. Mine cycle runs from midnight to 8am.
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Unfortunately, there's no outward indication when the ozonator might be running, if at all. I should take off the panel cover inside and investigate more. Also, we don't keep the tub powered on overnight. The missus doesn't care to heat it overnight. It's in a conditioned sunroom and loses only a few degrees of temperature covered.
 
Mdragger88 said:
Not saying there aren’t simply some smells that are imbedded in the spa’s materials that may honestly never fully go away but…
The majority of smells are likely from too little fc not too much. Be sure to let the tub “air out” after use & dosing to allow any cc’s created to escape.
Being proactive with fc dosing is much better than being reactive if that makes sense. Better to anticipate the fc need in advance than run too short and try to make up for it later (which doesn’t work well)
Nasty Things happen quickly in a spa environment- it can feel a little bipolar compared to a swimming pool which is fairly stable since the bather load ratio is high.
1 person in my little spa is like 100 people being in my big pool.
You’ll get the hang of it. Sure your bets with more fc. Don’t worry, it will get used up.
All the way up to slam level is ok (generally not quite necessary but ok)
but too little fc & you’ll have problems quick.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I explained to her the analogy of 3 people in ours is like 180 people in our pool. Didn't change her opinion of what I was trying to accomplish very much! Even with the tub not powered on overnight, I lost almost all my FC this morning (.5 FC, 1 ppm CC) and decided to perform a shock to 12 with the last of my dichlor needed to reach 30 ppm CYA. a combination of that and liquid bleach had dwindled down to 7.5 just a few hours later.
 
Generally a spa won’t quite pass an
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test like a pool but the loss shouldn’t be extreme. Hopefully several rounds of slam level will help things come around some.
With having a tub that sat for a long time like yours you may just have to deal with the increased fc demand until you can purge again (hopefully sooner rather than later). Your second purge results may surprise you!
Think of it like a stew that you’ve been brewing for a while 😂
 
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1 less variable!
*Note that the higher the fc the faster the decay rate. So don’t be super alarmed about it dropping seemingly quickly from slam fc levels.
Were you able to do an
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test?
Other than the smells & high fc demand is the water looking good & clear? Any other “symptoms” ?
 
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Mdragger88 said:
1 less variable!
*Note that the higher the fc the faster the decay rate. So don’t be super alarmed about it dropping seemingly quickly from slam fc levels.
Were you able to do an
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test?
Other than the smells & high fc demand is the water looking good & clear? Any other “symptoms” ?
Click to expand...
Yes, the water looks good. I pulled the filter this morning because I'm going to take your advice and perform another purge. If nothing else, to demonstrate to the Dear Wife that I'm working on a solution and offer some hope. I mean, can we level with me here? Is an indoor spa/hot tub, even the best-kept ones, always bound to have some level of odor, above and beyond our outdoor pools? And if we're nervously rushing to test and sanitize after two or three of us are in it for 15-30 minutes, how are these hotel/motel spas even remotely keeping up with the bather load?! :eek:
 
CeeElGee78 said:
an indoor spa/hot tub, even the best-kept ones, always bound to have some level of odor, above and beyond our outdoor pools?
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No. In fact I'd suggest a properly plumbed ozone system to help with that. The key words being "properly plumbed".
That said, if they stored chems in the cabinet, or had significant leaks of heavily treated water, the spa structure can absorb those and gas off for quite a while. You mentioned it smelled even before filling, so...

CeeElGee78 said:
And if we're nervously rushing to test and sanitize after two or three of us are in it for 15-30 minutes, how are these hotel/motel spas even remotely keeping up with the bather load?!
Click to expand...
In a word; automation. But in my 29 years of spa repair there has been exactly 1 hotel spa I would allow my family to use without treating it myself first. Don't use hotel spas.

A description of the smell might be helpful. I didn't see one, but I was skimming through. Most people recognize chlorine odors, but bromine is a different chemical odor, but a musty smell is organic.
 
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CeeElGee78 said:
Yes, the water looks good. I pulled the filter this morning because I'm going to take your advice and perform another purge. If nothing else, to demonstrate to the Dear Wife that I'm working on a solution and offer some hope. I mean, can we level with me here? Is an indoor spa/hot tub, even the best-kept ones, always bound to have some level of odor, above and beyond our outdoor pools? And if we're nervously rushing to test and sanitize after two or three of us are in it for 15-30 minutes, how are these hotel/motel spas even remotely keeping up with the bather load?! :eek:
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Many unfortunately are not all the time.
Lots of commercial tubs that are indoors use bromine or they have a chlorine injection system.
When planning to use the tub open her up a few minutes in advance to air it out some & help alleviate that trapped cc smell.
If you feed it enough fc initially you can avoid having to micromanage during normal soaks.
You’ll figure out (through your frequent testing) what each common bather load requires.
Most people get to the point where it goes something like this—>
After soak raise to 10ppm (your # may vary)
The next day when its time for your next soak your fc is 6 or 7ppm which is enough to get you through a 30 minuteish 2person session without falling below minimum and then the process repeats ♾️
 
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CeeElGee78 said:
Also, I'm taking time away from my pool prep/refresh this spring. I need to be pricing VS pumps and possibly a Stenner. Can't wait to get back outside to, as they say, familiar waters!
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Have you considered a salt water chlorine generator? No more jug lugging. With a vsp its even better- you can set the pump & swg on lower settings and run around the clock for very little $. This allows you to always be filtering, skimming, & chlorinating.
I also use a swcg for my hot tub. Its main function in the hot tub is to cover standby needs. I still dose after pretty much every use due to the fact that my tub is very small (250 gal) so if I set the swg high enough to cover the extreme bather loads I would end up with fc too high during standby on a regular basis. I don’t want to have to change the settings all the time so its a happy medium. My tub is ready to go at all times.
This is less of an issue in a larger tub.
 
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RDspaguy said:
No. In fact I'd suggest a properly plumbed ozone system to help with that. The key words being "properly plumbed".
That said, if they stored chems in the cabinet, or had significant leaks of heavily treated water, the spa structure can absorb those and gas off for quite a while. You mentioned it smelled even before filling, so...


In a word; automation. But in my 29 years of spa repair there has been exactly 1 hotel spa I would allow my family to use without treating it myself first. Don't use hotel spas.

A description of the smell might be helpful. I didn't see one, but I was skimming through. Most people recognize chlorine odors, but bromine is a different chemical odor, but a musty smell is organic.
Click to expand...
Residual bromine somewhere in the whole scheme of things could be a problem. I found old tablets left behind, but I tossed them out, not intending to use bromine. I did take Mdragger's advice and performed another purge. It did make a big difference, in as much as it doesn't use nearly as much chlorine on standby and I think the overall water quality is better, but my wife wants ZERO odor, and I'm not there yet. I'm tired of fighting it. Gonna purge one more time and drain it. She thinks she can do better, so let her :rolleyes:
 
What brand and type of Chlorine are you using? Are you using the Spa immediately after dosing?

I have a hot tub too in Australia. It was a lot and still trial and error in balancing 1000L of water at 38degrees C!!

I have an Ozone system. I dose my Chlorine to just over 4ppm knowing it will reduce in coming days back to 0.4-0.8ppm. I don't use the spa straight after dosing with Chlorine. Not good for my skin and the smell is lingering.

I shock with Potassium peroxy monopersulfate after every use. and if not in use Shock weekly.

I have no issues with Chlorine smell at all.

I also use a product called Bioguard Spa Velvet which is Boric Acid with a small % of ALum Sulphate and a nice rose fragrance. The borates give the water that silky feeling and the Alum Sulphate helps with clarity, not that I need it.
 
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