Case study to determine root cause of Pentair mastertemp 400 not igniting

[jedigrover]

It seems like that gas line must be newer than that though, since it's the yellow poly stuff--that really started coming in vogue in the mid 90's. I had my yard line replaced in 2004 and that was the first I'd seen anybody run it. In 2011, I had a smaller run done for a grill and the company opted to go with black iron, wrapped with the plastic barrier stuff instead of springing for the poly (they should've just gone with the poly--it would have saved them money in the long run as they failed inspection 3x with all their attempts to cut corners).

My guess would be there is a reason the line has been replaced. Have you dug it all up and found out if the whole run was done with poly, or could it still be iron pipe part of the way?

 

[jedigrover]

And if it is poly all the way, I would be concerned about a crimp / crease / collapse somewhere along the way.

 

[JamesW]

Can you dig up the line any near the heater to see how it transitions from the yellow to the galvanized?

 

[JamesW]

You can probably go to, email or call the office that issues building permits to see if a permit was issued to run a new gas line.

In any case, it looks like part of the line was replaced, probably due to some sort of problem.

I suspect that the problem is from after the yellow in the galvanized from the yellow to the heater.

If you have a records request please email your request to [email protected] or call 818-597-7334.

The permit should have the name of the company that ran the line and you can call them to see what they can tell you.

 

[Asherk74]

After the point I dug up that revealed the yellow poly, the line is buried under concrete . In fact, about 90% of the line is under concrete except for ~ 10 foot stretch.
As a test, I stuck a 3/16 diam drain snake (not the sharp side) down by the heater, and it could not make it out of the first elbow, made it only ~ 3 feet, so I'd only assume it is not one of those nice risers that mate with the poly pipe as shown, likely a 90 steel elbow.
will try to find an expert in my area (easier said than done, ha!)
I'll also call/email my city to see if any permits have been pulled for my address.

 

[JamesW]

I suspect that it will need to be dug up to inspect it to find where the problem is.

You might end up needing to replace the line.

 

[Asherk74]

Got all permits at my address, nothing since 1987, the last page had this note:

 

[JamesW]

Ok, maybe they did work with no permit.

Maybe it's original, hard to tell for sure.

In any case, I would probably try to dig it up from the heater side to see what the galvanized line looks like where it connects to the Yellow.

 

[Asherk74]

Im having an idea now. From my 10 foot stretch not under concrete, it is 'only' about 25 feet to heater, and I can did a trench directly under the fake turf and splice in new poly with a proper riser and neck down as close as possible to the heater.
This assumes where I splice in has proper flow, which I can carefully test once I cut. Would need a backup plan if my cut reveals low flow and our thesis was wrong. see pics
My wife's friend husband is a plumber who just DIY'd his own line, so he can help me with meeting local codes and reg's but has no time to do the actual labor.
Thoughts?
A. Sand trap is where I dug ~ 2.5 feet to find yellow poll. Blue spray marks the line using range finder currents.

B. pipe then goes under concrete prior to final run.

C. proposed new trench route

 

[JamesW]

I think that if you can find the end of the yellow pipe and replace from there to the heater, that might work.

 

[JamesW]

Can you run the line like this?

 

[Asherk74]

I think that if you can find the end of the yellow pipe and replace from there to the heater, that might work.

Looks like I’ve got some digging ahead!
Hopefully I don’t ding my irrigation lines.
Thanks a ton all for your support!

 

[Asherk74]

Can you run the line like this?

View attachment 414556

I don’t see why not!

 

[JamesW]

Maybe dig up the line at the circle, cut the line and then do the flow test again using the meter to verify good flow.

If yes, you're good.

If no, then more digging to do.

 

[Asherk74]

Next Update!
found what I believe to be the gas line in the circled location above, and it is rusted steel diameter that matches at the heater!! (~1.1" OD, so ID of 0.75")
I did not see a tracer wire at that location, so has me second guessing, but the diameters matching, and in the region I marked aligns.
The white is likely pool PVC. I don't think either are irrigation.
So, there is def significant run at 0.75" that mates with the 1.5" yellow poly.
Next course of action would be to trench trace the steel 0.75" to wherever it mates with the poly? Id have to dig a trench anyway, so I can just re-use hopefully.
Pics: circle is new hole with 0.75" steel, X is where I saw the 1.5" yellow poly

 

[JamesW]

Ok, that much 3/4" is definitely too small.

If you can run 1-1/2" from the yellow poly to the heater, I think that should do it.

 

[JamesW]

I would just abandon the galvanized and connect directly to the poly where you already found it and run from there.

Once you cut the poly, you can do a flow test.

 

[JamesW]

I think that the yellow poly was done as a replacement for a defective line probably within the last few years.

It’s silly that they didn’t just run it all the way to the heater.

Some of the plumbing near the meter is definitely new.

I think that everything from the arrows is new.



You can see that it looks new and shiny compared to the older pipe.

Maybe they didn’t want to have to get a building permit, which would be required if the entire line was replaced.

By only replacing part of the line, it is considered to be a repair and probably exempt from the requirement to get a building permit.

Hopefully, the part from the meter to the yellow poly is Ok.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I think that the yellow poly was done as a replacement for a defective line probably within the last few years.

It’s silly that they didn’t just run it all the way to the heater.

Some of the plumbing near the meter is definitely new.

I think that everything from the arrows is new.

View attachment 414686

You can see that it looks new and shiny compared to the older pipe.

Maybe they didn’t want to have to get a building permit, which would be required if the entire line was replaced.

By only replacing part of the line, it is considered to be a repair and probably exempt from the requirement to get a building permit.

Hopefully, the part from the meter to the yellow poly is Ok.

Yeah, pretty common sentiment - a long time homeowner gets frustrated with “dumping anymore money into that dang pool!!” after the plumber tells them that a retrench and replacement is going to be a few thousand bucks and so they opt for the cheapest fix possible. They know they’re not living there forever so whatever patch job gets done will be good enough and a problem for “the next guy” …

 

[Asherk74]

Correct, the new piping at the meter was my pool heaters installs attempt at it;
I'm praying the line is good from meter to the yellow poly. wont know until I dig it again and cut and watch the flow meter.
fingers crossed!
I'll update when that happens