can't raise Free Chlorine

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gcip

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Jun 19, 2024
10
duxbury ma
I have been struggling to get my pool to desired FC levels. Just started up a new SW system which is working properly. over the past week I have added 15 lbs of Bioguard super soluble, no real effect, then 4 lbs (3 days ago) and 3 lbs of in the swim shock last night. FC this morning under 1.
CYA was 89 when tested at the pool store; I measure around 120 after adding the super soluble (I have a Taylor test kit). Phosphates measure 4000ppb.
The support people at Circupool (SW generator provider) are advising that the phosphates are a big problem as well as the CYA. I will be removing the phosphates this weekend using PhosFree and/or Tr-10000.
I don't have a drain so in order to bring CYA down I will have to siphon. annoying but possible. My pool guy says CYA should be OK up to 200ppm, but everything I find here and elsewhere raises a flag over 100 and recommend around 70 for SW pools.
any advice is much appreciated. I'm getting tired of chasing my tail!
 
Welcome to TFP! :wave: I have to say, there is so much wrong with the advice you have been given I don't even know where to start. :brickwall: The simplest thing right now is to just cut the cord from the pool store and the tech who told you a CYA of 200+ is okay. Wow.

For now, this is what I would recommend:
1 - Get a proper test kit and test your own water. We recommend either a TF-100, TF-Pro Series, or Taylor K-2006C. That MUST be step #1.
2- Don't add anything else to the water right now except one gallon of liquid chlorine each day. That's it. Nothing else.

Unless you really want to, don't bother exchanging water until you confirm the CYA (and everything else) with your own testing. It's that important. With the proper test kit, we can guide you through any pool disaster.
 
I have the Taylor K-2006-salt kit. I find the CYA test to be tricky (when does the dot disappear?) But I'm pretty sure it's over 100. That kit doesn't measure phosphates so I ordered this:

Natural Chemistry 00081v Consumer Phosphate Test Kit.

Any thoughts on PhosFree vs PR-10000?
 
I say above "when needed" because often times PR treatment is not really necessary. More than anything the general water chemistry is off, and it sounds like yours is right now. I would recommend you post a full set of your own K-2006 water test results. That's always step #1. The info from the pol store is of no use. If you need some help with the CYA test let us know. We're happy to coach you through some testing tips if it will help.
 
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Great! Now before you do anything else, I would ask that you perform the diluted CYA test as noted HERE starting at Step #8. This is important becasue we can tell immediately that your CYA is indeed extremely high, and perhaps higher than you initial believe. As such, a partial water exchange is the first recommended action. It's almost impossible to properly manage the water with a CYA over 100 and your salt cell will never keep up. With a salt pool, a CYA of 70-80 should be plenty, and that's for us down south in extreme heat. Up there 60-70 might be enough. So run that diluted test first please. Let's see what true CYA number you get.

Easy TFP-CYA water exchange math ... if you exchange half the water, the CYA should drop by 50%.
 

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gcip said:
It seems like it makes sense to wait until after I exchange the water before dealing with phosphates, since they will be cut in half when I drain half the pool out.
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The thing about phosphates is you can't quit predict what the new levels will be. But like I said earlier, focus on your primary chemistry first. IMO, I wouldn't even bother purchasing a PR just yet. Once you get the CYA down to a decent level, let's get the primary chemistry balanced first and see if any other actions are required. Many people here at TFP never test, treat for, nor worry about phosphates. There are a couple unique situations where addressing phosphates might be advantageous (i.e. AA treatment), but generally not something to obsess about, at least not just yet.
 
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gcip said:
It seems like it makes sense to wait until after I exchange the water before dealing with phosphates, since they will be cut in half when I drain half the pool out.
Click to expand...
I would completely hold off on that phosphate thought. 99.9 percent of the time it turns out to be completely irrelevant, just an excuse to buy more products. It is highly likely you’ll be able to raise your FC to the correct CYA-adjusted level after you bring down your CYA and (if needed) do a SLAM. You will see people on Reddit and the like swearing by it, but like most more niche things you’ll find them unnecessary after you learn the TFP method. I’ve been using it since before there was a TFP, just a predecessor forum long ago. I’ve never needed phosphate reducer, floc, metal sequestrator, algaecide, clarifier, or any of the myriad other magic treatments people swear by.
 
Saw the no drain section. I can’t find a pump that will go to the bottom of the deep end, but I bought one of the suggested ones that can go on the slope, say, 6 feet down.
What the no drain section doesn’t explain is how long to run the system, assuming the pump and hose are synced.
Certainly seems more straightforward to drain and replace.
 
Re phosphates, this from the Circupool troubleshooting:

Phosphates and Nitrates that are present in the pool will cause the chlorine demand to rise and/or will consume the
chlorine being made by the salt system (Also see page 4). Phosphates are very common. Any Phosphate level near or
above 100 parts per billion can greatly increase the chlorine demand in the pool. Any Phosphate level over 200 Part Per
Billion will not only consume your chlorine, it will also readily feed algae. To remove phosphates, use commercial grade
Phosfree. When trying to lower significant phosphate levels, phosphate products meant for weekly maintenance are
usually not effective Nitrates will also rapidly consume your chlorine. If the Nitrate level is high, it is often most effective to
drain the pool and refill with new water, being sure to add the necessary amount of salt back to the pool.

Any thoughts? You guys are super helpful and experienced, I’ve just been doing what the pool store said for years, so what’s up with the phosphates?

I have some phosfree coming from amazon today, cheap enough to experiment with plus the weather is not a good pool weekend, so I figure I’ll give it a try and see if it actually matters. Nothing I’ve read tells me this can do any harm other than using up some DE and costing some $$. I’ll let you know what I find, if anything.
 
gcipolletti said:
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
The industry expects you to constantly battle alage. It is obsessed with algae control, not algae avoidance. One of the two is a cash cow, and i'll let you make up your own mind if they knowingly make you fail, to then utilize the cash cow. The big players *have* to know what theyre doing, right ? Lol. The little guys just follow the big guys. 🤷‍♂️

Anywho, with algae, phosphates are algae food and everything the manufacture says is true here. They will accelerate your algae problem and the cell wont keep up.

With TFP, free of algae, its like setting up a buffet in the middle of the sahara desert. So what you left food out ? Aint nobody coming to eat it. :)

A few (and i mean a literal handful) have seen an apparant correlation to phosphates and their cell not producing as expected. Its rare. Its possible for you too, but not likely. Or, its something else smoke screening as the phosphates when it does seem to matter, or take multiple things to line up just so to affect some people and not all. Anywho, its probably not your problem. It also wont hurt anything.

Next time use Orenda or Seaklear.
 

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