Can't figure out what is going on with my pool. Chemistry is great.

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jim.thornton

0
May 19, 2018
37
Brantford, ON, Canada
BACK STORY:

My neighbour has helped me tremendously with my pool when I moved in. He use to install pools and has owned one for 30 years himself. All he does to maintain the pool is puts liquid chlorine in and stabilizer at the beginning of the season. Uses Tri-chloro 3 "SUPER STICKS" per week (not pucks). Then if there was a weekend with a lot of bathers he would shock it. That's it! Crystal clear water all the time. For the most part I have followed his advise while perusing these forums and learning from you guys. It's basically the same system as BBB because he doesn't believe in all the "extra" chemicals.

I live in Canada around Toronto. Note I do not have the recommended test kits because I can't seem to get it in Canada.

I opened my pool mid-May. When I opened my pool I noticed my pool pump (Hayward Super Pump 1HP) was seized. I came to these forums and was suggested to take it to an electrical motor shop to get it repaired. I did that and it has been working without any issues.

Last Saturday I had some friends over and noticed the pool going *slightly* cloudy. Figured I would just shock it after the weekend and be on my merry way.

I have not had any issues with algae since I've owned it (about 1 year) except last year I was away for a weekend and my wife/kids left the solar cover on it for the weekend and didn't take it off. I had a small bout that I had to fix then and since then everything has been going great (until this).

Sunday the pool water was even more cloudy so I dropped the creepy crawler in and let it vacuum. It started fine and about 1 hour later I noticed it was not working. I went down to the skimmer and the hose had popped out of the hole. I went over to the pump and I noticed it was only filling up with water about 2/3 of the way. I checked the return and the pressure was way down (my pressure gauge is broken on my filter). I assumed the issues was with the pump. It was a holiday weekend for me (Canada Day) so I could not go to the store and buy another pump. But, realizing that the water was cloudy and the hottest days on in years I assumed that if I didn't get a pump going that it was going to go green. So, I went to a local classifieds website and found a 1 year old Hayward Super Pump 1HP (exact same pump) and bought it. Hooked it up and the same thing (low pressure -- but it was better than the last pump). My pump runs 24/7.

I tested all the water and everything seemed perfect to me (PH a little low around 7.2). Everything else seemed good. Chlorine was on the high-side of normal based on the drop tester I have.

I had about 1.5 to 2 cups of chlorine in my jug so I dumped it in my skimmer and hoped that the little bit extra would help.

Tuesday the water was the same. I tested it again and everything was still good. I took a sample to the pool store to confirm my numbers and they came up with pretty much the same numbers. However, the Chlorine was showing higher with them (TC 9.15, FC 8.36). The CYA was 100 on the dot. The PH was 7.3 and the TA 79. There were no metals in the water.

So... I loaded up on chlorine and came home. I put about another 1 to 1.5 gallons into the skimmer when I got home and let the pool run. I also brushed off the walls and floor. There was some light-brown or yellowish streaks along the ground of the pool so when I brushed it that all stirred up. I let things run for the day in hopes it would start to clear up.

Wednesday, my neighbour had some "filter cleaner". Said he has used it before with amazing results. So we dissolved a cup into a bucket of water and cascaded it over the top of the water. Then repeated that the opposite direction. Turned off the pump as well. Further research showed that this was DE powder.

So... Today I'm sitting at this point. The water seems to be no better or maybe even a little worse. My neighbour is going to have me vacuum the DE powder off the bottom (very slow and careful) and then backwash, repeating this a few times until clear.

I don't really understand what is going on. He seems to think this was all caused from a lack of frequent backwashes. Since opening the pool in Mid-May, I only backwashed 2 or 3 times. He wants me to do it everyday for about 30 seconds. After I backwashed on Sunday (after putting in the new pump) the pressure increased substantially which is why I was hoping with the extra bit of chlorine and filtering that it would clear up.

Any help is appreciated. See current state in pic inline and attached.

pool-pic.jpg
 
Just quickly with a “suggested” CYA of 100. The minimum FC is 8. The daily is 11-13. Very tough to hold those levels and anything less will invite algae. Without a real test kit, it will be difficult for anyone to guide you through this. However, let’s assume some of those numbers are correct. Here are the steps but again it’s going to be almost impossible to do this correctly.
1. Partial Drain pool to get CYA to a reasonable level. 30-50.
2. Lower PH to 7.2
3. Slam pool. ( look up SLAM PROCEDURES IN POOL SCHOOL)
4. Pass the three tests.
 
Derb22 pretty much has it covered.

You need a reliable way to measure your pool, especially FC.

If you are having cloudiness issues you may have the beginning of an algae bloom (remember, they are microscopic algae cells, by the time your eye detects algae there are millions of them). You will need a FAS/DPD chlorine test kit to perform an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to confirm, and to SLAM Process.
 
I don't have a way of getting a good test kit until next weekend when I go to Chicago. I'm about 2 hours from the border plus wait times and 2 hours back. My schedule will not allow me to go sooner.

I thought that CYA is recommended to be between 100 and 150??

Also... PH 7.2?? I've been reading people on here keeping it at 7.8. Is 7.2 proper?

- - - Updated - - -

Also... My pool is currently about 2.5" low of water because of all the backwashing and heat (evaporation). I'm adding water right now. about 2-3". Is that enough of new water??
 
At “100” you need to drain half the water. The recommended CYA level for non SWG pools is 30-60. At 100 your FC safe levels are nearly impossible to keep up AND you would have to hold a FC of 39 for a few days to get rid of all algae.
1. drain half the water to lower CYA TO 50.
2. Lower PH TO 7.2 For the SLAM.
3. SLAM pool. Hold FC OF 20 until you can;
4. Pass three tests.
A. Clear water
B. CC less than 1.
C. Pass OCLT.
 
Some quick notes

None of your problems are pump or filter related and all chemistry problems.

Sand filters work better dirty, so backwashing everyday for '30' seconds is actually not a good idea, at 30 seconds your probably arnt doing anything but wasting water.

Solid forms of clorine are unsustainable, there is Rocky waters ahead for your neighbor.

SLAM Process
 
OK. Here is an update as to what is going on:

1. I vacuumed to waste a LOT (this is how I did #2). There was yellow algae on the bottom of the pool.
2. I did a partial water change. I drained the pool down to about the bottom of the returns and refilled with tap water.
3. I put in about 5-6L of chlorine.
4. Waited and let it filter overnight.

My hands are still a little tied as I still don't have the recommended kit and won't until next weekend. That's out of my hands as this is the only time I can get to the U.S. to get the kit.

So... I took a water sample to the local pool store and had it re-tested. Here were their results:

PH 8.1
FC (just said OVER 16.1)
TC (just said OVER 16.1)
TA 71
CYA 79
Copper 0.01 (or 0.1 -- I can't remember the scale it used but it was low anyway)

Heater is off.

I downloaded the PoolMath app and it told me to put in 11oz. of Muriatic Acid which I did today.

I also put in 250ml of Algaecide.

The water is MUCH better than it was, but it is still cloudy. A couple of questions.

1. The app says for SLAM, I should have my Chlorine at 32. How am I suppose to maintain that level if the test only shows (OVER 16.1)? Also, my drop test only shows 3.0 as the highest.
2. How long does it typically take to clear up cloudy water when you are maintaining shock level?

I don't know if I actually am at shock level and I don't know how to find out. Can someone advise what I should do about that in the meantime please?
 
A test kit is really the hero of our system.
Click to expand...
Exactly. TFP has been developed, refined, and tweaked just a little over the years.

Regardless, the whole philosophy revolves around your ability to stop guessing and get an accurate test kit......of which there are really only two viable alternatives......the TFTestkits TF-100 or the Taylor K2006C
 
There’s quite a bit of difference between 0.1ppm and 0.01ppm when it comes to copper.

I hope the algaecide you used is not copper based. I’ll also mention that the algaecide was a waste of money at this point.
 

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Algaecide prevents future algae. Clorine already does that.

Untill your able to get your kit you have to do what you can. Your pool store can read up to 16 apparently so you can let your FC get under FC and you will have some clue where your FC is around, use PoolMath to get it to slam level and when it gets to 16 or under do it again. You won't over clorinate the pool this way. This will prolong the SLAM Process but I think you can grain ground with it
 
Hello Jim,

I had the same problem as you for a month. My pool was green and I went to Leslie pools for help. They told me to use green to clear (algaecide) and shock the pool. The pool went from green to milky white in a day and showed some results. However the next 3 weeks were depressing. The water became cloudy and never cleared up. The pool store said I need to add Acid, water purifier, Phosfree, clean my filter and all sorts of chemicals to clear it up. I must have cleaned my filter 15 times. After 3 weeks of listening to them and not getting results. I realized they didn't know what they were talking about. I searched and found out I had a DE filter and needed to add diatomaceous earth to refill it. After cleaning the filter and refilling the Diatomaceous earth, my pool went from cloudy to crystal clear overnight. Please let me know if this helped.
 
Algaecide is a preventive item. Using it during an algae bloom is like getting the flu shot after you catch the flu, futile.

Algae will not hurt you. Algae is your warning that sanitizer levels are too low, and that bacteria and person to person disease can survive if this cycle continues. Algae is the ‘canary in a coal mine’ for pools. Using algaecides will suppress this, and some algaecides contain copper.

In a properly maintained TFP, there is no need for the added expense of algaecides for routine maintenance.
 
Hyena said:
Hello Jim,

Is your filter a DE filter. If yes did you use Diatomaceous Earth to refill it?
Click to expand...

Hyena said:
Hello Jim,

I had the same problem as you for a month. My pool was green and I went to Leslie pools for help. They told me to use green to clear (algaecide) and shock the pool. The pool went from green to milky white in a day and showed some results. However the next 3 weeks were depressing. The water became cloudy and never cleared up. The pool store said I need to add Acid, water purifier, Phosfree, clean my filter and all sorts of chemicals to clear it up. I must have cleaned my filter 15 times. After 3 weeks of listening to them and not getting results. I realized they didn't know what they were talking about. I searched and found out I had a DE filter and needed to add diatomaceous earth to refill it. After cleaning the filter and refilling the Diatomaceous earth, my pool went from cloudy to crystal clear overnight. Please let me know if this helped.
Click to expand...

To clear a pool takes more than adding DE to a DE filter. It takes chlorine and a good test kit. Oh and time to let the filter do it's thing once the algae is dead from the chlorine.

Kim TFP MOD
 
Boilerking said:
Go on line to read the instructions to use Super Yellow out or Green to clean. The dopes in the store don’t tell you the secret is to add soda ash and jack the PH up to the moon first. Even if you didn’t do this its not to late to do it afterward
Click to expand...

Here at TFP we do not endorse such products. Here is how to clear a green or cloudy pool: Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

I also encourage you to read here: Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

Kim TFP MOD
 
If your pool pump won't prime, then you have a leak somewhere in the plumbing. It's either that, or the pump itself needs replaced. Since your using a different pump now and it still won't prime, I'm betting that your sucking air in from somewhere (you have a leak somewhere in the system). Either your filter is letting air in, or some of the piping going to or coming back from the pool is leaking. You need your pump to prime, it won't run well without it.

Those CYA levels are nuts. I keep mine from 30-40 at max. Heading near 100, the chlorine is rendered useless. You could have 30ppm FC and still come back to a green pool. Get that CYA down under 50.

Algeacide is a waste of money. A properly chlorinated pool (with proper CYA levels) will not grow algae.

Get yourself a good test kit. The pool stores testing is "good enough" for now, but get a kit.


How are you adding chlorine to the pool? My suggestion is to use liquid chlorine (bleach). Most everything else has something in it you do not want.

Those Tri Clor tablets (or sticks) have stablizer in them (CYA) which will raise the CYA level in your pool over time. After a summer or two, you'll be
right back where you are now with a CYA over 100 and a green pool. Bleach doesn't have anything else in it, that when the level gets too high, it will
be bad for your pool. So that's why I recommend bleach or some other form of liquid chlorine. If you do use regular bleach, try to get plain ole bleach
and not the stuff with scents in it like fabreze.
 
Wow! I've been working around the house for the day and didn't expect so many responses.

@Hynea: I have a sand filter, but I used DE powder scattered over the top of the water with the pump off, let it settle over night and then vacuumed it up the next day.

@domct203: Thanks... I won't use the algaecide any more.

@getreal720: I'm not sure where you are getting the pump not priming from. I'm not having a problem with the pump not priming, it primes. I was having a problem with tremendously low pressure and not a lot of circulation as a result. The new pump improved the pressure, then back washing tremendously increased it even more.

@kimkats: I'm not buying any other "products" for the pool. I'm following the suggestions here.

@getreal720: Previously I was adding chlorine through "Super Sticks" which are Trichlor-S sticks. But, I have not put any sticks in since this issue started. I've only been using liquid chlorine (not bleach).

I'm not sure what the price of bleach is in the U.S. but it is much cheaper getting liquid chlorine up here than using store bought bleach. Even buying the cheap stuff up here is about $2 per 3.8L. IF that is 6% then comparing it to the 12% chlorine at the pool store, it works out to a much higher price than the $0.60 per L that I pay at the pool store for chlorine.
 

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