Can you re-gunnite a pool without disturbing the surrounding concrete deck?

[Sventory]

In Gulf coast area, I/G pool. 40'x20' oval. 5 ft max depth 2 ft min depth.

Roto rooter came and gave a leak test for the pool, we knew it was leaking but not sure how much and where. The tech found several cracks in the pool area, and around the skimmer. We will be replacing the skimmer for sure. The tech also said "the shell is fine, but I would redo the gunnite entirely". I thought the shell was gunnite? What would that process look like? They would go in the pool and chip away everything? I thought gunnite had rebar in it and you needed to use wood blocking to do the form? How would that be possible if the pool is already enclosed inside a concrete deck? Our pool is a bit odd in that it sits "above ground" but it's technically IG, They basically built up a hill with some dirand used cinderblocks to put the concrete deck level with the pool. So that right outside the edge of the deck it just drops off about 3 feet into a sloped hill.

So can they just remove the gunnite and redo it while not touching the surrounding concrete deck? What is a ballpark price for such a thing?

The other option is those compression staples, but I hear they aren't guaranteed to work, and I worry about this "hill" and the erosion if that's why the cracks started in the first place. The concrete deck has some sinking pieces as well. I would hate to do something expensive but not work for long term.

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

The tech also said "the shell is fine, but I would redo the gunnite entirely".

You need to ask the tech what exactly he meant. I think he was blowing a throw away comment out of his rear end.

No way you can redo the gunite without demoing the pool and the surrounding deck.

The other option is those compression staples, but I hear they aren't guaranteed to work, and I worry about this "hill" and the erosion if that's why the cracks started in the first place. The concrete deck has some sinking pieces as well. I would hate to do something expensive but not work for long term.

There are a bunch of Youtube videos showing concrete staples being used to repair gunite cracks.

If the staple repairs are done properly with quality materials and an experienced crew it should hold stronger then the surrounding gunite.

There are a few different crack repair techniques and concrete staples will be stronger then just an epoxy injection crack repair. You want to understand exactly what materials and techniques will be used to repair your crack.

 

[MAPR-Austin]

In Gulf coast area, I/G pool. 40'x20' oval. 5 ft max depth 2 ft min depth.

Roto rooter came and gave a leak test for the pool, we knew it was leaking but not sure how much and where. The tech found several cracks in the pool area, and around the skimmer. We will be replacing the skimmer for sure. The tech also said "the shell is fine, but I would redo the gunnite entirely". I thought the shell was gunnite? What would that process look like? They would go in the pool and chip away everything? I thought gunnite had rebar in it and you needed to use wood blocking to do the form? How would that be possible if the pool is already enclosed inside a concrete deck? Our pool is a bit odd in that it sits "above ground" but it's technically IG, They basically built up a hill with some dirand used cinderblocks to put the concrete deck level with the pool. So that right outside the edge of the deck it just drops off about 3 feet into a sloped hill.

So can they just remove the gunnite and redo it while not touching the surrounding concrete deck? What is a ballpark price for such a thing?

The other option is those compression staples, but I hear they aren't guaranteed to work, and I worry about this "hill" and the erosion if that's why the cracks started in the first place. The concrete deck has some sinking pieces as well. I would hate to do something expensive but not work for long term.

The tech misspoke for sure, he meant plaster. Common mistake in my experience. Post some pictures of your pool and the interior finish and we can advise you a bit.

The compression staples coupled with epoxy injection is your best bet if there are any cracks in the shell. But if the pool is sliding down a hill then it will likely re-crack.

You should do a bucket test, that way you will know how much water you are actually losing. You can also buy some dye and use it to test around the skimmer. A common bandaid for leaks in that area (which is common) is a two part underwater epoxy. You use the dye to find the point of the leak, and put the epoxy into the hole. If the leak is in the plumbing then obviously it has to be excavated and repaired.

Do you have a copy of the leak report you could post? Might help us understand what you have got going on.

 

[JamesW]

The tech also said "the shell is fine, but I would redo the gunite entirely". I thought the shell was gunite?

Correct, the shell is gunite (or shotcrete).

They probably meant the plaster.

Verify what they meant.

Are they even qualified to evaluate the pool structure?

You should get an opinion from a pool company.

 

[Sventory]

Thanks all for the replies. I have gotten multiple opinions. Sometimes pool companies tell me they can't do something they can just to make more money. That's happened once already before. So I make sure I verify and understand everything (with the help of awesome communities like this one).

Everywhere there was a crack that was puttied over is having a leak, confirmed via a dye test in those areas, plus a huge wad of putty where the skimmer connects to the pool is leaking multiple areas, couldn't get a picture of that because it's mostly under water. You can also see the plaster peeling off in a lot of spots in one picture.

I am losing about an inch of water in a weekend (2 days). The water leveler in there is going off a lot to keep the water level above the skimmer line. Here are pictures. As you can see numerous cracks that were they are puttied over. But obviously not a sufficient long term plan. Also you can see some of the concrete deck sagging in. We were hoping we wouldn't have to redo the entire deck, Erosion is a concern on the hill side. but we were planning to have a cinderblock retaining wall and extend the concrete deck about 5 feet out from where it is now to stop erosion. But I'm not sure that would be enough still. We had a large wooden deck that was half rotted we recently removed (hence the weird setup right now).

 

[Sventory]

[/QUOTE]

Post some pictures of your pool and the interior finish and we can advise you a bit.

I've posted the pics, trying to get a copy of the report but it was a dye leak test and I watched him do it and saw all the spots where the dye got sucked up easily.

 

[Bperry]

Thanks all for the replies. I have gotten multiple opinions. Sometimes pool companies tell me they can't do something they can just to make more money. That's happened once already before. So I make sure I verify and understand everything (with the help of awesome communities like this one).

Everywhere there was a crack that was puttied over is having a leak, confirmed via a dye test in those areas, plus a huge wad of putty where the skimmer connects to the pool is leaking multiple areas, couldn't get a picture of that because it's mostly under water. You can also see the plaster peeling off in a lot of spots in one picture.

I am losing about an inch of water in a weekend (2 days). The water leveler in there is going off a lot to keep the water level above the skimmer line. Here are pictures. As you can see numerous cracks that were they are puttied over. But obviously not a sufficient long term plan. Also you can see some of the concrete deck sagging in. We were hoping we wouldn't have to redo the entire deck, Erosion is a concern on the hill side. but we were planning to have a cinderblock retaining wall and extend the concrete deck about 5 feet out from where it is now to stop erosion. But I'm not sure that would be enough still. We had a large wooden deck that was half rotted we recently removed (hence the weird setup right now).

Sinking deck is likely caused by the leak. Are you sure the plaster hasn’t been painted? It doesn’t really “peel” off and is more like missing chunks or just worn down to the shell.

 

[MAPR-Austin]

Thanks all for the replies. I have gotten multiple opinions. Sometimes pool companies tell me they can't do something they can just to make more money. That's happened once already before. So I make sure I verify and understand everything (with the help of awesome communities like this one).

Everywhere there was a crack that was puttied over is having a leak, confirmed via a dye test in those areas, plus a huge wad of putty where the skimmer connects to the pool is leaking multiple areas, couldn't get a picture of that because it's mostly under water. You can also see the plaster peeling off in a lot of spots in one picture.

I am losing about an inch of water in a weekend (2 days). The water leveler in there is going off a lot to keep the water level above the skimmer line. Here are pictures. As you can see numerous cracks that were they are puttied over. But obviously not a sufficient long term plan. Also you can see some of the concrete deck sagging in. We were hoping we wouldn't have to redo the entire deck, Erosion is a concern on the hill side. but we were planning to have a cinderblock retaining wall and extend the concrete deck about 5 feet out from where it is now to stop erosion. But I'm not sure that would be enough still. We had a large wooden deck that was half rotted we recently removed (hence the weird setup right now).

Looks like the plaster is ready to be redone, it has deteriorated to the point where the shell is visible.

The cracks are structural and probably related to the pool shifting. Likely this caused the skimmer to pull away from the shell a bit as well causing a leak. If you replace the whole skimmer make sure that they are tying it to the pool and keeping it structurally separate from the deck.

Short term you can just scrape that old putty off and re-apply it until you seal up the cracks and stop the leak. This is something a homeowner can do with some A+B or Blue/White underwater epoxy putty and a dye kit to check your work. Shouldn't take more than an hour or so to do them all, and if the leak start back up you can use the dye to find and fix it. A bandaid for sure, but one that you can do immediately for cheap.

Long term you need to shore up the deck and stop the erosion that is causing the deck and pool movement.

The best bet for the cracks in the pool shell is to do epoxy injection and tension staples before replastering. No guarantee that it won't re-crack or crack in another area if the erosion/movement issue is not resolved.

 

[Sventory]

Alright, sounds like I should consult an engineering on the land shift/erosion. We get A LOT of rain here and as you can see the hill is already somewhat eroded. If we are going to spend 20k+ to fix this pool, I don't want to have it crack again due to rain even if it's not leaking. I'd rather spend another 1k for consultation and analysis or whatever than risk everything getting ruined again after spending 20k+. We are also having the thing replumbed because it's plumbing is all the flexi-pipe junk (the previous stewards of the pool were super cheap).

 

[ajw22]

Alright, sounds like I should consult an engineering on the land shift/erosion. We get A LOT of rain here and as you can see the hill is already somewhat eroded. If we are going to spend 20k+ to fix this pool, I don't want to have it crack again due to rain even if it's not leaking. I'd rather spend another 1k for consultation and analysis or whatever than risk everything getting ruined again after spending 20k+. We are also having the thing replumbed because it's plumbing is all the flexi-pipe junk (the previous stewards of the pool were super cheap).

You may need to have piers put in under your pool that anchor it to solid surface under it to keep it from shifting like this Austin TX pool on a hill needed to do...

Need urgent help with cracking/leaking pool on a hillside in Austin, TX!

We did hire an engineer and he wants us to make a hole from the center of the pool to the bottom of the outside wall but I am not sure who I hire to do that?!? He said this will give us a good cross section of the construction thru the crack. ... Any ideas on who I would hire to make the hole...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[oldprophet]

In Gulf coast area, I/G pool. 40'x20' oval. 5 ft max depth 2 ft min depth.

Roto rooter came and gave a leak test for the pool, we knew it was leaking but not sure how much and where. The tech found several cracks in the pool area, and around the skimmer. We will be replacing the skimmer for sure. The tech also said "the shell is fine, but I would redo the gunnite entirely". I thought the shell was gunnite? What would that process look like? They would go in the pool and chip away everything? I thought gunnite had rebar in it and you needed to use wood blocking to do the form? How would that be possible if the pool is already enclosed inside a concrete deck? Our pool is a bit odd in that it sits "above ground" but it's technically IG, They basically built up a hill with some dirand used cinderblocks to put the concrete deck level with the pool. So that right outside the edge of the deck it just drops off about 3 feet into a sloped hill.

So can they just remove the gunnite and redo it while not touching the surrounding concrete deck? What is a ballpark price for such a thing?

The other option is those compression staples, but I hear they aren't guaranteed to work, and I worry about this "hill" and the erosion if that's why the cracks started in the first place. The concrete deck has some sinking pieces as well. I would hate to do something expensive but not work for long term.

No. You can't remove the gunite. You might as well plan on building a new pool.

 

[Bperry]

Alright, sounds like I should consult an engineering on the land shift/erosion. We get A LOT of rain here and as you can see the hill is already somewhat eroded. If we are going to spend 20k+ to fix this pool, I don't want to have it crack again due to rain even if it's not leaking. I'd rather spend another 1k for consultation and analysis or whatever than risk everything getting ruined again after spending 20k+. We are also having the thing replumbed because it's plumbing is all the flexi-pipe junk (the previous stewards of the pool were super cheap).

There’s a reasonably good chance all the leaks are what’s causing the soil erosion.

 

[Sventory]

You may need to have piers put in under your pool that anchor it to solid surface under it to keep it from shifting like this Austin TX pool on a hill needed to do...

Need urgent help with cracking/leaking pool on a hillside in Austin, TX!

We did hire an engineer and he wants us to make a hole from the center of the pool to the bottom of the outside wall but I am not sure who I hire to do that?!? He said this will give us a good cross section of the construction thru the crack. ... Any ideas on who I would hire to make the hole...

www.troublefreepool.com

Wow that design is nuts, we definitely don't have a budget for those kind of piers.

 

[Sventory]

There’s a reasonably good chance all the leaks are what’s causing the soil erosion.

That's what I presumed too, but one thing that crossed my mind though is the pool was put in in 2015, and started getting leaks in 2020. From what I understand, pools should not be leaking when only 5 years old, so what causes the original leaking? I was told it was a "on the cheap" job. I thought maybe the gunnite wasn't poured thick enough and it's cracking because of that, but from what our new pool person told us, the gunnite is normal thickness at the beam. So what else could cause a pool to crack and leak after only 5 years old? It's not the plumbing because that was checked back then and now and there have been no issues found.

 

[Bperry]

That's what I presumed too, but one thing that crossed my mind though is the pool was put in in 2015, and started getting leaks in 2020. From what I understand, pools should not be leaking when only 5 years old, so what causes the original leaking? I was told it was a "on the cheap" job. I thought maybe the gunnite wasn't poured thick enough and it's cracking because of that, but from what our new pool person told us, the gunnite is normal thickness at the beam. So what else could cause a pool to crack and leak after only 5 years old? It's not the plumbing because that was checked back then and now and there have been no issues found.

The age doesn’t matter. If the soil wasn’t compacted properly or backfilled it could crack over time. Some people let the pool overflow in the winter which lets water under the skimmer/coping, tree roots can crack pipes underground, some people run rain gutter drainage into the soil, lots of different things can happen.

 

[JamesW]

pools should not be leaking when only 5 years old

The pool looks a lot older than 5 years.

What date was it installed?

Who installed it?

What warranty was provided?

 

[JamesW]

In my opinion, there is no way that this pool is only 5 years old.

Did you install the pool or was the pool there when you bought the house?

How was the pool built?

Is it gunite, shotcrete or what?

What plaster is on the pool?

If it is only 5 years old, what does the builder have to say?

 

[JamesW]

I was told it was a "on the cheap" job.

I suspect that you were told lots of things and many of the things were not accurate.

I suspect that you do not have any idea what you have or when it was installed.

Go to the city building department and look up any permits that were issued by the city for work done at your address.

 

[Sventory]

I suspect that you were told lots of things and many of the things were not accurate.

I suspect that you do not have any idea what you have or when it was installed.

Go to the city building department and look up any permits that were issued by the city for work done at your address.

It is an HOA pool, and yes we do know when it was installed. It was installed in 2015. The pool is not 5 years old now, but I have reports of it leaking since 2020, when it was 5 years old. That's when the putty/epoxy whatever seen in the pics was put in. And that is only the gunnite itself.

It was previously a vinyl liner pool, so the surrounding concrete was already there. Someone broke the vinyl irreparably so it had to be replaced. The gunnite was done as an "in-place" replacement. So as I understand they did not mess with any of the concrete deck (or perhaps only around the skimmer, but considering all the leaks and how old the model of the skimmer is, probably not), just took out the vinyl liner, and put gunnite in. Officers of the HOA who were on the board when this happened have told me this is what occurred.

It was done "on the cheap" because the total cost was around 6k for this. <-- Those are the only items I have not been able to verify myself and simply repeating what I was told. The gunnite was for sure put in in 2015 and it was not a total redo.

It also looks like no permits were pulled, so that would seem to be on par with "on the cheap". It was installed by a "contractor" the at the time board president knew. The then president owns some real estate and this was one of their go to guys. I don't know who exactly though and there is no warranty.

 

[JamesW]

It was done "on the cheap" because the total cost was around 6k for this.

Seems really sketchy.

Do you have pictures of the process?

There are obviously a lot of details that we do not know and there is pretty much no way for us to tell what you have.

You need an expert onsite to evaluate as best as they can.