Can you avoid CYA and other chemicals with SWG?

[imranx82]

First time pool owner. I never bought a pool before because I'm not a fan of chemicals. However, I bought the Intex pool this year after learning about saltwater generators produce a much lower level of chlorine.

I only had the pool for 1 week now and the water looks fine but I have few concerns.

Mainly my free chlorine, PH, and Hardness is low. So I ran the SWG on "boost" mode in hopes of producing my chlorine and correcting that. I also bought stabilizer but been hesitant to add it as I rather resolve this without chemicals

1. My question: If I run the SWG longer and cover the pool every day when not in use, can I avoid adding stabilizer?

Also, My PH and calcium hardness is also showing to be very low. However, I think I can disregard that as I have read online that saltwater naturally raises PH over time and if my above ground pool consists of a vinyl liner, the hardness is not important.

2. Can you confirm that PH and Hardness are not important to correct now.

I"m doing all these tests using the free 4-way Intex test strips. Not sure how reliable these are but I saw the kits others recommend on this board and they look pretty expensive. (or maybe my hesitation is partly in attempt to avoid chemicals all together.

3. Are they any cheap test strips you would recommend over other?




This is my very first post. I'm supper confused about all this and feel a little naive to thinking that I can have a "chemical minimal pool." Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[FattyLumpkin]

Hi and welcome! Others will chime in as well, but I am a fellow salt-water owner, and can say without question that you need to have CYA in the pool to stabilize your FC. Your "superchlorinate" or "boost" setting on your SWCG isn't going to cut it -- you need to add chlorine by way of bleach to get your FC to a point at which your SWCG can maintain it. There's a link in my signature to recommended levels, but here's a good summary page I found very useful as well.

pH *is* important, but not as important as FC and CYA to start -- unless your pH is crazy high or low (i.e., below 7.0 or above 8.0), CH isn't in a vinyl pool unless it's very high and your pH is out of whack, which could lead to issues with scaling.

You mention the expensive pool test kit -- I hate to break it to you, but the strips aren't going to cut it. You need to invest in a quality kit if you want to properly maintain your pool. Otherwise, you're throwing darts blindfolded. I use the TF-100, but the K-2006 is also recommended. See the link in my signature for comparisons and recommendations.

Once you have a kit, supply the following numbers: FC, CC, CYA, pH, TA, and CH. There are hundreds of folks and many very expert folks who can then guide you on what to do. In the end, you will save money and have a crystal clear, safe pool.

While you wait for your kit, I would recommend you update your signature (link in my signature) with the details of your pool. You've provided some of them already (vinyl above-ground, salt-water), but size would be helpful in gallons. I would also recommend you start adding bleach to your pool right away to keep any algae that's already starting at bay. How much you add will depend on the size of your pool... so try to determine that and provide it, and folks can help guide you until your kit arrives.

Good luck!

 

[Patrick_B]

Welcome to TFP!

By the numbers, all good questions.

1. Cya not only protects Chlorine, it acts as a buffer to reduce the harshness of it, so therefore it is very beneficial. Without Cya, you will lose every bit of Chlorine you put in by SWG or other means, and covering it 24/7 isnt practical or good. It cant be covered while you swim, and keeping it covered 24/7 won't allow the degradation of CC (Combined Chlorine) which is actually the source of irritation people connect with Chlorinated pools. SWG produced Chlorine is no different than that which comes from a bottle or bucket, and you need a given amount no matter the source. So, it's a misconception that a SWG pool has less Chlorine than a manually dosed one.

2. The pH and hardness are very important in all pools, but hardness less so in vinyl ones. However, with a SWG in place, you need to know, and control of these and related paramters becomes extremely important. pH is always important in every pool, no matter the type or situation. Too low, its hard on you, and equipment, and too high, it creates problems for the SWG and Free Chlorine itself. Less so with soft water, but there are related parameters that come into play which are important to understand.

3. Test strips are inferior to proper testing, and there are none we recommend. Multi-Analyte strips are extremely unreliable and cannot be counted on at all. You need a proper kit with any sizeable pool, and tradtional wet testing is the most accurate, and very best option. Using a good kit, and following guidelines we suggest will allow you to manage a pool with extreme ease, and great success. We recommend two kits here, and most prefer the latter, but these are the Taylor K2006 C, and the TF100. Both use the exact same reagents, but the TF-100 has a better value to dollar with more of the reagents you test with the most.

 

[Donldson]

Welcome to TFP! A lot of this will be a repeat of the above, but since I already typed it here is is anyway.

I'm going to come right out and say it, your aversion to chemicals is misguided and the information you got on SWG is incorrect. Water is a chemical and every pool is just swimming in it! There, now the bluntness and terrible humor is out of the way, we can get down to business

CYA is not just to protect chlorine from the sunlight, it also buffers chlorine. Although the buildup of it causes lots of problems for people who use solid forms of chlorine, when you get the proper mix of chlorine to CYA* the water feels... well, like there isn't any chlorine at all!

In answer to your questions
1: Your pool will feel much less comfortable using zero CYA and keep 1 ppm FC than if you followed the FC/CYA chart for SWG pools and kept 70 CYA and 5 ppm FC. Without CYA buffering the chlorine that 1 ppm of FC is much more active than TFP recommended levels. That is one of the reasons I say your concern is misguided, using CYA causes some of the 'chemicals' in the pool to be less reactive and noticeable.

2: Calcium is not very important in a vinyl pool, but pH is. But, that brings me to question 3,

3: Nope, test strips are worth less than what you paid for them. The recommended kits are certainly more expensive than test strips... and worth every single penny. Keeping your water in good balance is the key to a comfortable swim, while also protecting your liner and SWG cell. Buying and using a proper test kit is an investment that pays off with less chemical usage, less wear on the pool, filter, and SWG, and a more comfortable experience.

I urge you to do some reading here on the forum and in Pool School. You will find that some of your concerns are exaggerated and prior experiences are not indicative of what can be accomplished when pool chemistry is done right. I would start here for some idea of the misinformation floating around out there: Pool School - Common Swimming Pool Myths Dispelled


* Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

 

[Richard320]

1. My question: If I run the SWG longer and cover the pool every day when not in use, can I avoid adding stabilizer?

In theory, yes. In reality, no. Chlorine has a half-life of less than an hour in sunlight. Without the buffering effect of CYA, you're pretty much limited to about 3 ppm FC lest you start bleaching swimsuits and the liner. In an hour, you're at 1.5, which is below the threshold to kill bacteria. If you're of a scientific bent, study up on Pool Water Chemistry

From a practical standpoint, you could keep CYA low, say 30 ppm, and you gain all the buffering benefits and a good bit of UV protection with minimum CYA. CYA by itself is not especially toxic. People who blindly follow pool store advice and who chlorinate with trichlor pu8cks and a weekly "shock" with dichlor routinely end up with CYA levels in excess of 200 ppm.

Also, My PH and calcium hardness is also showing to be very low. However, I think I can disregard that as I have read online that saltwater naturally raises PH over time and if my above ground pool consists of a vinyl liner, the hardness is not important. 2. Can you confirm that PH and Hardness are not important to correct now.

Low pH can cause skin and eye irritation. You can't count on the SWG raising it unless you know your Total Alkalinity level. If it's really low, the pH may never rise. Low CH is no worry in a vinyl pool.

I"m doing all these tests using the free 4-way Intex test strips. Not sure how reliable these are but I saw the kits others recommend on this board and they look pretty expensive. (or maybe my hesitation is partly in attempt to avoid chemicals all together.

3. Are they any cheap test strips you would recommend over other?

None. They are not accurate enough. Wait too long and the reading changes. Set the strips down on the plastic chart and the colors bleed. And have you looked at the resolution? Some show CYA as zero, then 30-50 then 100, and go on up. Skip the strips.

This is my very first post. I'm supper confused about all this and feel a little naive to thinking that I can have a "chemical minimal pool." Any help would be greatly appreciated.

You can't. Water is a chemical. Salt is a chemical. Calcium Carbonate is a chemical.

You're right in not wanting to add a bunch of junk to the water, but you can never go completely chemical free. If you keep the pH in range and the FC in the right range for your CYA level, your water will stay clear, sanitary, and odorfree. No red eyes. No dry skin. No brittle hair.

 

[imranx82]

Sorry for not having my signature in place prior to post. I thought I already had it but I must have failed to properly save.

Here are the pool details:
Intex 24' x 12' x 52" Ultra Frame Rectangular Above Ground Pool (8400 gallons)
Intex Sand Filter Pump with a pump flow rate of 2,100 gallons per hour
Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System with E.C.O. (Electrocatalytic Oxidation) for up to 15k Gallon Above Ground Pools

Thank you for the replies. Sounds like CYA is a must so a quick follow-up. Do I add it now while I"m trying to raise the chlorine level, or do I add CYA after chlorine levels are good?

I guess I will need to to also order a proper kit. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Richard320]

Sorry for not have my signature in place. I thought I already had it but didn't realize that I failed to save.

Here are the pool details:
Intex 24' x 12' x 52" Ultra Frame Rectangular Above Ground Pool (8400 gallons)
Intex Sand Filter Pump with a pump flow rate of 2,100 gallons per hour
Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System with E.C.O. (Electrocatalytic Oxidation) for up to 15k Gallon Above Ground Pools

Thank you for the replies. Sounds like CYA is a must so a quick follow-up. DO I add it now while I"m trying to raise the chlorine level with SWG or do I add CYA after chlorine levels are good?

CYA takes a while to dissolve so don't wait for it. Put it in a sock and hang it in front of the return and let the water flow pummel it. Give the sock a squeeze every few minutes.

 

[imranx82]

Richard, Thanks for the tip. Hung the sock a little while ago.