Thank you! That’s excellent info to have going into our meeting tomorrow, especially about legal fees. The rebar is definitely not to spec. The engineer called for a 12x12 grid, which we don’t have. And check out how close the rebar is to the surface on the longest wall. That’s the wall in which they clustered all the plumbing too. Yikes.
Can this be patched or is it a total demo?
- Thread starter 8675309
- Start date
Just found a series of photos showing that the structure did get watered after the gunite was shot. Oh well. We did our best.
DB-Cooper
Well-known member
- Jun 18, 2019
- 579
- Pool Size
- 30000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Watered once, or watered regularly? Watering defintiely increases strength and is in everyones' best interest, but I'm not convinced a non-watered shell should fail as obviously as your's did. I think there were other issues (possibly multiple) and maybe watering would've helped, but doubtful it would've been the cure all.
Lots of shells go umwatered and it doeant lead to this. This is a prime example of a major screw up. It's bad enough that it's all wasted material, but now you gotta demo out steel reinforced concrete. An excavator with a breaker is around 3k a day with operator and fuel. Not fun.
Bright side for them is diesel is cheap right now and were hitting no traffic to and from jobs at the moment in NJ thanx to Corona.
Bright side for them is diesel is cheap right now and were hitting no traffic to and from jobs at the moment in NJ thanx to Corona.
Watered regularly. One of the local contractors who came out to look said it shouldn’t have failed catastrophically even if it wasn’t watered regularly. This afternoon I also found exterior rock (not backfill, but site rock) intruding nearly all the way into one of the corners. There’s half an inch between it and the rebar. Looks like that corner was only 3” thick. Ugly. Fingers crossed our PB will cooperate with a demo and rebuild.
We got a quote over the weekend: $12,000 for a 2-day job (with haul away and disposal). (We’ll make sure any bills go directly to the PB, but still had a bit of sticker shock on that one.)
That's about right.. I was thinking 10k for a ballpark just from pics not sure on size and your location to the recycling facility
- Jun 7, 2017
- 9,159
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
Has the builder agreed to a complete redo yet? Are you giving the contractor the opportunity to do the work or just getting it done and presenting the bill? Do you have a state contractor fund that covers this sort of thing if the contractor starts playing games? I would think NJ does. Also do you have a timeline for the new build? Obviously this year is a total loss but I would shoot to have plaster done by sometime in August at the latest so you are swimming next season.
And given that all of our neighbors are working from home (as am I), if this guy can get it out in two days versus a week of noise, I’m all for it. Thanks again for your help here. It makes a difference.
UPDATE: So far so good. We just met with the PB and his gunite sub. We have a verbal commitment that they will work with their insurance companies and demo and rebuild. The PB said, “it’s my name on the line; I’ll get it done.” Fingers crossed we continue to move forward amicably. (We will of course get a written contract before we proceed with demo and rebuild.) Thank you again to all of you for your advice and support. You’ve been so generous with your time and expertise.
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Desert Dog
Silver Supporter
Thanks great! Stressful but this sounds like the best outcome possible outcome. Hope they can get started soon for your piece of mind.
Obi1.5
Member
I would like to reiterate an earlier point.
It's great that the gunite sub is playing ball, but your contract is with the PB. Set a personal deadline of when the PB must agree to your terms, and stick to it. I would say 14 business days MAX. This is plenty of time for the PB to agree to terms.
Your terms should include the following:
1. A declaration by the PB recognizing their failure to honor the contractual obligation.
2. A clear understanding that you ( the customer) will incur no costs in the remediation of this problem.
3. The pool will be completed to the specifications agreed to in the original contract.
4. Demolition will begin on a specific date. Demolition will be completed by a specific date.
5. The build will begin on a specific date, and will be completed no later than a specific date. (negotiate the NLT date, give the PB some leeway to deal with the unknown, but not much)
6. Specific Milestones for each stage of the project will be defined. The PB will meet with you at each of these stages and show proof that the work is being completed to specifications. (This forces the PB to be hands on with the subs and maintain oversight. Also, if there is a mistake it will likely be caught prior to the next phase)
7. Repair and restoration of the surrounding area is the responsibility of the builder. (grass seed, cleaning driveways, damage to shrubs etc.)
8. Failure to meet any specific deadline, without renegotiation, will result in monetary penalties. ( this is a common provision in many project contracts, especially when you are allowing them to fix their mistake rather than suing the Crud out of them for damages)
9. Hold harmless statement protecting the customer from liability for injuries to PB employees and ALL sub contractors.
In this scenario, your PB may be gung-ho to get the work started. But he may be less inclined to finish the job promptly. He will be losing money every day his crew or subs are working on this. His financial motivation will be to focus on paying work, and send workers your way when he can spare them. Setting hard dates and penalties ensures his on-going commitment.
One other tip. Hire a lawyer who's not family.
It's great that the gunite sub is playing ball, but your contract is with the PB. Set a personal deadline of when the PB must agree to your terms, and stick to it. I would say 14 business days MAX. This is plenty of time for the PB to agree to terms.
Your terms should include the following:
1. A declaration by the PB recognizing their failure to honor the contractual obligation.
2. A clear understanding that you ( the customer) will incur no costs in the remediation of this problem.
3. The pool will be completed to the specifications agreed to in the original contract.
4. Demolition will begin on a specific date. Demolition will be completed by a specific date.
5. The build will begin on a specific date, and will be completed no later than a specific date. (negotiate the NLT date, give the PB some leeway to deal with the unknown, but not much)
6. Specific Milestones for each stage of the project will be defined. The PB will meet with you at each of these stages and show proof that the work is being completed to specifications. (This forces the PB to be hands on with the subs and maintain oversight. Also, if there is a mistake it will likely be caught prior to the next phase)
7. Repair and restoration of the surrounding area is the responsibility of the builder. (grass seed, cleaning driveways, damage to shrubs etc.)
8. Failure to meet any specific deadline, without renegotiation, will result in monetary penalties. ( this is a common provision in many project contracts, especially when you are allowing them to fix their mistake rather than suing the Crud out of them for damages)
9. Hold harmless statement protecting the customer from liability for injuries to PB employees and ALL sub contractors.
In this scenario, your PB may be gung-ho to get the work started. But he may be less inclined to finish the job promptly. He will be losing money every day his crew or subs are working on this. His financial motivation will be to focus on paying work, and send workers your way when he can spare them. Setting hard dates and penalties ensures his on-going commitment.
One other tip. Hire a lawyer who's not family.
While it's nice to get all the above on paper and legal, theres a fine line of going too far. The PB is only out the shell amd demo, not bad if the redi mix eats the material, amd the pain is spread between them amd the sub+PB. Hes still gonna get paid to build a pool like originally planned hes not that far into it. I give him a little credit for doing the right thing eventually, just be keen on things progressing and cover your bases