Can this be patched or is it a total demo?

8675309

Active member
Aug 16, 2018
26
NJ
You dont have enough time to get an analasys before they come to look. The good thing is you have an idea now what your looking at. Stand your ground. If it comes to it am emgineer will need to do a report and get the specs on mix from the suppliers they will do a few core samples and have them tested.
I'd think at this point they both know it's a demo job. The PB prob subbed the shell to the gunite crew amd hes in a bad spot too. Whether they eat it or they split it is their problem. See what happens and insist on a tear out. If the rebar is improperly positioned ita a breach of contract. It must be built per emgineer specs. Mayne reach out to the emgineer who stamped it. My guy would be flaming mad to have his stamp sitting on that shell a failure could come back to him as well as other parties involved. I've been an expert in 2 trials it was ugly and the homeowners suffered the most. In NJ you not only get reimbursed in a win but your attorneys costs too are added in sometimes doubled depending on contract breach
Thank you! That’s excellent info to have going into our meeting tomorrow, especially about legal fees. The rebar is definitely not to spec. The engineer called for a 12x12 grid, which we don’t have. And check out how close the rebar is to the surface on the longest wall. That’s the wall in which they clustered all the plumbing too. Yikes.
 

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8675309

Active member
Aug 16, 2018
26
NJ
I offer no expertise like the others in here, but I don't know that I'd rest easily at night with the patch work.

I am interested in the timeline. It's typical that gunite shells will sit for some period of time before they get plaster. At minimum it needs to cure for 30 days by most standards, but most pools just take longer due to coping, tile work, electrical and just industry delays. You said gunite was done in 2017 and then plaster in Spring 2018. If it was late 2017, I'm not sure it's that big of a deal.

The not watering the gunite the days following the gunite was a miss. You said you can't remember if you did it. I'm inclined to say that you didn't though. That's an exciting time, sitting out there for 20-30 minutes hosing things down. I just think that's the type of thing you'd remember. In my case, my PB had one of his guys come by daily and water it, I added an additional daily water to it on top of that. Watering for 1 week (and even more) is best practice as it slows the curing and strengthens it, but I'd have to imagine if it was missed, the pool integrity should still be good unless there was another underlying problem. I could be wrong.
Just found a series of photos showing that the structure did get watered after the gunite was shot. Oh well. We did our best.
 

DB-Cooper

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2019
287
Austin, TX
Just found a series of photos showing that the structure did get watered after the gunite was shot. Oh well. We did our best.
Watered once, or watered regularly? Watering defintiely increases strength and is in everyones' best interest, but I'm not convinced a non-watered shell should fail as obviously as your's did. I think there were other issues (possibly multiple) and maybe watering would've helped, but doubtful it would've been the cure all.
 

jimmythegreek

TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
In The Industry
Aug 10, 2017
2,501
Morris Cnty NJ
Lots of shells go umwatered and it doeant lead to this. This is a prime example of a major screw up. It's bad enough that it's all wasted material, but now you gotta demo out steel reinforced concrete. An excavator with a breaker is around 3k a day with operator and fuel. Not fun.

Bright side for them is diesel is cheap right now and were hitting no traffic to and from jobs at the moment in NJ thanx to Corona.
 

8675309

Active member
Aug 16, 2018
26
NJ
Watered once, or watered regularly? Watering defintiely increases strength and is in everyones' best interest, but I'm not convinced a non-watered shell should fail as obviously as your's did. I think there were other issues (possibly multiple) and maybe watering would've helped, but doubtful it would've been the cure all.
Watered regularly. One of the local contractors who came out to look said it shouldn’t have failed catastrophically even if it wasn’t watered regularly. This afternoon I also found exterior rock (not backfill, but site rock) intruding nearly all the way into one of the corners. There’s half an inch between it and the rebar. Looks like that corner was only 3” thick. Ugly. Fingers crossed our PB will cooperate with a demo and rebuild.
 

8675309

Active member
Aug 16, 2018
26
NJ
Lots of shells go umwatered and it doeant lead to this. This is a prime example of a major screw up. It's bad enough that it's all wasted material, but now you gotta demo out steel reinforced concrete. An excavator with a breaker is around 3k a day with operator and fuel. Not fun.

Bright side for them is diesel is cheap right now and were hitting no traffic to and from jobs at the moment in NJ thanx to Corona.
We got a quote over the weekend: $12,000 for a 2-day job (with haul away and disposal). (We’ll make sure any bills go directly to the PB, but still had a bit of sticker shock on that one.)
 

PoolGate

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 7, 2017
4,694
Damascus, MD
We got a quote over the weekend: $12,000 for a 2-day job (with haul away and disposal). (We’ll make sure any bills go directly to the PB, but still had a bit of sticker shock on that one.)
Has the builder agreed to a complete redo yet? Are you giving the contractor the opportunity to do the work or just getting it done and presenting the bill? Do you have a state contractor fund that covers this sort of thing if the contractor starts playing games? I would think NJ does. Also do you have a timeline for the new build? Obviously this year is a total loss but I would shoot to have plaster done by sometime in August at the latest so you are swimming next season.
 

8675309

Active member
Aug 16, 2018
26
NJ
That's about right.. I was thinking 10k for a ballpark just from pics not sure on size and your location to the recycling facility
And given that all of our neighbors are working from home (as am I), if this guy can get it out in two days versus a week of noise, I’m all for it. Thanks again for your help here. It makes a difference.
 

8675309

Active member
Aug 16, 2018
26
NJ
UPDATE: So far so good. We just met with the PB and his gunite sub. We have a verbal commitment that they will work with their insurance companies and demo and rebuild. The PB said, “it’s my name on the line; I’ll get it done.” Fingers crossed we continue to move forward amicably. (We will of course get a written contract before we proceed with demo and rebuild.) Thank you again to all of you for your advice and support. You’ve been so generous with your time and expertise.
 
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