Calcium nodules and delamination

[tcassutt]

We had our pool plastered about 18 months ago. We have had problems with discoloration and crazing since the beginning, which the plaster company blamed on a slow fill. Unfortunately, trucking in the water was never offered to us. Over the last year we are getting calcium nodules and we just had a delamination, a piece along the wall came off. The plaster company is blaming our water chemistry and saying our pool cleaner took off the plaster when going over a calcium nodule. I am reading online that the nodules and delamination are prone in pools where the surface was not properly prepared and that it indicates bonding failures in the replaster. Is he correct and it is the water chemistry or is this a bonding issue? He wants to drain the pool and do an acid wash and patch the missing plaster and charge us $950 to do it, but I don't want to do that if we are just going to continue to have more delaminations. Any thoughts? Thank you!

 

[mknauss]

This is not a water chemistry problem.

Search articles by @onBalance. I would be wary of an acid wash. The repair needs to be done. Realize you will be able to see the repair.

 

[ajw22]

Calcium Nodules – Pool Help

Member @onBalance has posted about the causes of plaster defects. The root cause was in the plaster mix and application.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Who is the plaster manufacturer? PebbleTec, SGM, CLI ? Was the plaster job done by a licensed, trained and certified plaster installer? The major finishing companies all certify installers as part of the warranty.

Demand that the plaster supplier come and evaluate the job or contact the National Plasterers Council (NPC) and ask for an independent evaluation. Delamination with the presence of widespread cracking and nodule formation points to improper surface prep, bond failure and poor troweling work. Water chemistry can not logically caused localized bonding failure.

You have a case against the plaster installers workmanship but only if you doggedly pursue this and stand your ground.

 

[tcassutt]

Thank you for your replies and for the links. We used someone who is a pool builder (recommended by a friend) who then subcontracted out the demolition and plaster job to another company. We didn't realize he was going to do this until it was too late. Also, unfortunately, we had an old crack in our pool and so the builder would not warranty the plaster job and recommended we do just plaster instead of the quartz we wanted in case the crack came back. I'm not sure what recourse we have without a warranty.

This is his current analysis:
Originally very slow fill time, maybe water stopped during fill or bad water pressure. Prominent eggshell cracking on Baja, upper walls, and spa. Common with color plaster finishes with either extreme heat or slow fill time. This pool was shot when the weather was high 60's to low 70's. Most likely, bad water pressure or water stopped during the filling of the pool.
Current condition, whiting and calcium nodules growing due to high Calcium Hardness in water per chemistry report provided by customer. Pool has to be drained, acid washed, and light sanding to nodules. One pop-off on pool wall most likely due to a calcium nodule coming loose and taking plaster off as well, or someone tried to remove nodule causing plaster damage. This would have to be repaired while empty - (no guarantee for match). Salt is also too high which can cause increase in calcium hardness as well. Report states water was at 55 degrees when the report was done.
Pool should not be drained for about 10 days after all of the heavy rains have stopped. Draining too close to heavy rains can cause a pool to float as a worse case scenario.

And this is what he is offering:
Unfortunately, given the current conditions of the calcification, there is only the one way to attempt to remove that, and that's with acid. I have to trust that they wouldn't recommend it, if, it wasn't ok to do it. Acid Wash, sanding of the nodules, and the repair they would charge us $925.00. Unfortunately, the current conditions are a direct result of pool water chemistry and not the work that we provided. That said in light of everything with the footprint that was left, we would be willing to split this cost with you. Not figured in this cost is the water and chemical balance, you cover the water, and we will provide the initial start-up. Hope that helps.

I don't know what to do. Should I move on to another company to come do the repairs or just use him? In hindsight I never should have used the guy--lesson learned.

 

[ajw22]

Plaster work is typically subcontracted. It is specialized work and there are usually a few crews in an area who do all the work for local pool companies.

I will be kind and say that your pool builder is misinformed when he lays the blame on water chemistry. He is passing the blame rather then telling his sub to step up to fix the poor prep work.

At this point you are stuck with them. For $500 plus your water and chemical costs I would let them do their fixes and see how it turns out. If it is not satisfactory then you can escalate it. I doubt any other plaster company will touch the situation other then to do a complete chip out and replaster.

 

[JamesW]

It's not a chemistry issue.

The new plaster did not bond properly to the old plaster.

In my opinion, the only real fix is to chip out down to gunite and replaster.

A crack is not a legitimate reason to not provide a warranty on a replaster.

They could say that they couldn't warranty the crack reappearing because that's a structural problem.

However, there's no legitimate reason to not warranty the rest of the replaster.

 

[tcassutt]

Thank you all for the advice.

 

[tstex]

It's not a chemistry issue.

The new plaster did not bond properly to the old plaster.

In my opinion, the only real fix is to chip out down to gunite and replaster.

A crack is not a legitimate reason to not provide a warranty on a replaster.

They could say that they couldn't warranty the crack reappearing because that's a structural problem.

However, there's no legitimate reason to not warranty the rest of the replaster.

What James said X's two.

If I had my car repainted and there was a place where the back qtr panel was split [but still structurally bonded], I would not hold him responsible if the paint split in that area. But, if the paint does not hold in all the other places, that has NOTHING to do the split on the other side of the car. If the paint chips in other areas. it tells me that the car surface prior to painting was not properly prep'ed. An acid wash has no impact on the surface preparation job, only the exterior. Your problem is deeper than where the acid can reach.

You now have some legal and financial questions to make. An acid wash can only make this look better, but for a very short time. What I would do is hire a plaster specialist to perform an analysis to determine if the prep-work, materials, material mixing, application processes/etc were done to spec or not. After you receive your analysis, report back. You need to get to the core issue, which at this time, sounds like an application and materials issue...nothing other than a chip-out and a proper redo will help you and provide you the piece of mind you need, that is, if the job was done incorrectly.

 

[sktn77a]

I'd take his offer up. If it works, you're good and have saved an expensive chip-out and replaster. If it doesn't work, you're only out $500. Don't use, or recommend, this guy ever again - the problem was the plaster installation.