Brown stains all over the shallow end

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Q

quentin_1

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Jun 28, 2013
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New Jersey
Hello everyone,
I just had my plaster pool opened on Saturday; the pool is 12 years old. As the water cleared over the weekend, I can now clearly see something I have not seen in prior years. I have some sort of staining all over the shallow end of the pool - almost uniform. This stain does not respond to brushing at all - I used a metal brush and nothing came of it. I was hoping Bleach would eat away at the stains but that has not happened.

I tested with Vitamin C - no, my stains are not metal stains.

Could you please recommend what I should do to address this? Thanks and regards, q



TA 70
PH 7.8
Chlorine 15
CYA 56
Calcium Hardness (had this tested at the pool store, 146)
 
Have you added any pool store products to the water lately? What about last winter at closing? Do you recall the brand(s)? Since Vitamin C didn't work (iron) you might try some dry acid in a sock (copper). If that doesn't work, you may need to order a Magic Jack's Stain ID kit. But I would also recommend providing a full set of test results from your own TF-100 (link below) or Taylor K-2006C test kit. Sorry to say pool store testing is often times unreliable.
 
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thanks, Texas Splash.
i use only Bleach in my pool. to your point, however, when the pool was just opened, my pool guy used Seachlor (it is some sort of chlorine based shock). To your point, i will use my kit and post my measurements by end of day.
best, q
 
Quick update as I just took the measurements using tf100:
ta 120 (I must mention that upon opening the pool on Saturday morning, the ta reading was low at 40 so I added 15 pounds of baking soda)
ph 7.4
cya 45
chlorine 12
as I said, the stains are not responding to brushing; they also appear in the shallower end of my pool/ about half the pool really.
thanks.
here are the two pictures, to the best of my ability.
 

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Q, your test results don't show anything really obvious or out of line. You mentioned a previous product added called Seachlor, but I'm not finding anything by that spelling. I do see Seaklear (a clarifier), which could gum-up the filter if used but that's about it. But it's hard to tell from the pics what you have going on. I do see that you haven't tried a chlorine tab (puck) directly on a stained area. I would ry that since you have a plaster surface and a puck is a bit stronger on the area (immediately) - just in case it's an organic-based stain. If the puck doesn't do anything, you can still try the dry acid in a sock tomorrow.. I'm hoping that a chlorine tab on the stained area as a test will show some improvement.
 
Thanks again.
I don’t have the puck but what I did is poured one back of shock In one spot overnight. Sadly, nothing happened. The surface seems etched and rough to the touch.
could it be that the plaster reached its useful life and I see what is underneath plaster? In other words, there is no plaster left ? Strangely, it is only in half of my pool, the shallower end.
Could it be from low TA or some other chemical imbalance that water ate through plaster?
Id like to try the sock with dry acid - what dry acid should I buy? What should I be looking for exactly? (I use Muriatic acid to lower ph). just want to make sure I get the right chemical. THANK YOU!
 
See if you can try the dry acid test before we tag a plaster expert to review your situation. It does seem odd it's only in the shallow end and just happened this year. While your recent test results looked fine, if the CSI was low in the past for a significant amount of time it could impact plaster. But before we go the plaster route, I'd like to rule out copper staining. You should be able to find dry acid in a pool section of your local store. It might be called pH Minus or something like that. Look for sodium bisulfate on the ingredients. I hate to see you buy a bottle just for the test, but I don't see any other way to rule-out copper at the moment.
 
Now that you've tried Vitamin C (iron), chlorine granules (organic), and dry acid (copper) with no impact on the staining, I think it's time we call-in some additional folks to take a look. Before doing so, can you get any other photos of that shallow end staining? The two pics above are a bit hard to see well, at least they are for me. :geek:
 

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Light blue/turquoise sounds like copper.

Your current stains look like scale with dirt and iron mixed in.

Are you the original owner of the pool?

I suspect that you're going to need sulfamic acid to clean this or a drain and acid wash.

Draining is risky if the ground water is high because the pool can float.

Sulfamic acid will convert the FC to CC for months.

I would try sulfamic acid (Jack's #2 copper and scale stuff) and then drain and refill after if it's safe to do so.
 
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thanks, James.
how do I apply/use sulfamic acid? Do i apply it in one spot of the pool first and then apply to the whole pool? i searched online and found this information:

Directions
  1. Add 1/2 gallon of muriatic (pool) acid per 10,000 gallons of pool water.
  2. Add Jack's Magic The Blue Stuff at a rate of 1 qt. per 10,000 gallons of pool water. Tip: with salt (chlorine generator) systems or high TDS (over 1200 ppm) substitute Jack's Magic The Purple Stuff at a rate of 1 qt. per 10,000 gallons of pool water.
  3. Add 10 lbs. of Stain Solution #2 per 10,000 gallons of pool water.
  4. Brush pool to make sure chemical products are completely in solution.
  5. Circulate pool continuously for the duration of the treatment; which could be as soon as 48 hours, or as long as 2 weeks.
  6. Once a week during treatment, clean filter, add chlorine (or other sanitizer). Do not shock, and raise The Blue Stuff (or The Purple Stuff) level to 20 ppm.
  7. After stains removed (may take several weeks), slowly (no more than 4 lbs. every 8 hours) begin rebalancing total alkalinity (use sodium bicarbonate only).
*Do not swim for the duration of the treatment.
Isolate heaters and/or heat pumps from circulation. If this cannot be done, DO NOT treat pool with STAIN SOLUTION #2.

Would you recommend I follow these instructions to a T or you have a different method?
I can't thank you enough. best rgds, q
 
I'm not exactly sure what the stains are.

I haven't used sulfamic acid personally.

So, I would follow the directions given by Jack's #2.

I do not know that it's going to work, but it's the only thing that I can think of that might work.
 
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Good morning:
quick update and question: i called Jack's Magic helpline and they strongly advised me to first use their Test kit. I am getting this Test kit and will follow the instructions.
My friend's pool guy actually suggested that I use Sparkle Conquest - 2 quarts for my 24k gallon pool. He also said the same that I likely have copper stains caused by the copper pipes in my heater because of Low Alkalinity (i.e., the low TA caused these pipes to bleed copper into the pool).

Are you familiar with this product, Conquest? Should I use it to try to treat my pool condition? (I wanted to ask this before I get the test kit). Thanks v much, q
 
It looks like Sparkle Conquest is 1-Hydroxyethylidene-1, 1-diphosphonic acid CAS number 2809-21-4, which is typical sequestrant.

Try the stain test kit to see what that shows.
 
James, you were right all along, and the test kit confirmed it!!! i have copper stains and will need Jack's Magic products! I need to do the heater bypass first and unfortunately cant find anyone fast enough; my pool guys is unavailable - perhaps I need a new pool guy! So I started off with Jack's Magic Blue stuff to see if it has any impact at all.

Regarding the heater bypass - is any capable plumber able to install it? I would assume so, right? he only needs to know which pipe to cut/redirect, or is this a complicated job that needs to be done by someone who knows pools?

thanks again and regards, q
 

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