Best Suction-Side Pool Cleaners

[Dirk]

I like this one because it’s compact and has the hard plastic internal strainer -

Hayward W560 PoolVac Navigator Standard Leaf Canister

Amazon.com

Hayward also makes a larger version with an exterior handle that’s about twice as large but it only has a coarse mesh bag inside. It works fine but you can not capture fines with it. Don’t bother with the flip-top Pentair version, it’s trash.

Thanks for the link. Does it float like in the picture? So that I could grab it from the surface instead of reaching down into the water? That wouldn't be too bad on a cold day.

How about a link to the hair nets... Better yet, can you just come over and clean my pool for me. Thanks.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thanks for the link. Does it float like in the picture? So that I could grab it from the surface instead of reaching down into the water? That wouldn't be too bad on a cold day.

How about a link to the hair nets... Better yet, can you just come over and clean my pool for me. Thanks.

Just look up “spun polypropylene hairnets” on Amazon, you’ll find them in bags of 100 that should cost around $10. I’m surprised, are you not using hairnets in your skimmer already??

As for ease of removal, my cleaner is setup such that there is the small leader hose plugged into the wall port (I had a spare one) and then the in-line canister. Then I run the standard Pentair segmented hoses down to my cleaner with the short leader hose as the last one before attaching to the cleaner. The leaf canister is never more than a foot from the edge of the pool and it usually floats. It will sink a bit if it’s full of heavy debris. Normally I find there is a small air bubble that develops in the canister which adds buoyancy (there’s no impact from the bubble on the cleaner). If you wanted to, you could wrap a float (I’ve used a cut piece of pool noodle) onto the front of the tubing to keep it above the water. Also, if you want or need something to grab a hold of, then you can try to buy one of the cheaper knock-off brands of leaf trap that has a handle. Not sure why Hayward designed their large canister with a handle and their small one without, but it’s never been a big deal for me. I prefer the compact design of the smaller one.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

This is an old picture of it where I had long hoses on both sides. I put a Pentair hose weight on one end and a noodle float on the other. There’s also some air in the canister.

812E7BB8-8C91-490B-975F-4EBCABE45DBD.jpeg

• JoyfulNoise
• Jul 20, 2022

I’ve since made the wall connection hose shorter and I don’t really need the weight or the noodle anymore.

 

[1poolman1]

His signature says 2HP 2-speed US motors pump ..

Old eyes.

 

[Dirk]

I’m surprised, are you not using hairnets in your skimmer already??

Never really had the need. I know I end up with more in my filter, but as I mentioned, my pool is so clean that I only clean my filter once a year and could even skip years if I wanted to. I don't have pollen or dusty surroundings or much leaves or bugs, etc. (Hope I'm not jinxing myself!) So the hairnets, and the leaf canister, would just be another weekly chore that really wouldn't lessen the filter cleaning task or its frequency.

 

[DanF]

@DanF - you may find that low speed is inadequate for a suction cleaner unless you are pulling exclusively on the suction line. In general, its not a good idea to pull exclusively on the suction line as it's pretty restrictive for most pool pumps and you can lose prime easily since there's no other line to equalize with. However, if your only other option is 3450RPM, then you are going to need to be able to adjust the intake flow at the wall port using a special spring loaded diverter valve. Pentair typically includes them with their suction cleaners because their intended to be used with older single speed pumps. It's a good idea to use that as it allows you to dial in the flow rate you need and can avoid a pump losing prime. Pentair also includes a little visual gauge with their suction cleaners so you can get the floe rate into the "OK" range. Once you dial it in, the only other effect on performance is filter loading.

Thanks Matt. Will I need the diverter valve if my equipment pad has a Jandy valve to adjust the amount of suction between my skimmer and the suction port?

 

[DanF]

I like Rebel because getting in and out of it is easy.

What do you mean by this?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thanks Matt. Will I need the diverter valve if my equipment pad has a Jandy valve to adjust the amount of suction between my skimmer and the suction port?

I say set it up and see how it goes … you should be fine with your setup.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Never really had the need. I know I end up with more in my filter, but as I mentioned, my pool is so clean that I only clean my filter once a year and could even skip years if I wanted to. I don't have pollen or dusty surroundings or much leaves or bugs, etc. (Hope I'm not jinxing myself!) So the hairnets, and the leaf canister, would just be another weekly chore that really wouldn't lessen the filter cleaning task or its frequency.

View attachment 481293

You jinxed me … my cleaner started only going straight the last day or so. I finally pulled it up and the internal gear had a twig jammed in it, now I have to pull it and take it apart tomorrow … NO MORE TALKING ABOUT CLEANERS WITH YOU!

 

[Dirk]

You jinxed me … my cleaner started only going straight the last day or so. I finally pulled it up and the internal gear had a twig jammed in it, now I have to pull it and take it apart tomorrow … NO MORE TALKING ABOUT CLEANERS WITH YOU!

But, but, I posted the "Knock On Wood" cartoon! This is all @Mayorb's fault!

 

[Dirk]

What do you mean by this?

I think he meant they're easy to disassemble/reassemble.

 

[Dirk]

Thanks Matt. Will I need the diverter valve if my equipment pad has a Jandy valve to adjust the amount of suction between my skimmer and the suction port?

No. The diverter valve is for those that don't have that valve on their pad. I do, and it works great balancing the skimmer and vac.

The other component that Matt described is the included flow meter. You put that inline on the vac's hose and adjust the diverter valve until the meter reads in the optimum range. It's easy. I've placed that meter between the wall port and the hose, and other times between the hose and the vac head. I'm not sure it matters, as flow is generally constant anywhere on its path, given the same diameter conduit.

The other adjustment is just watching it to see if it tries to crawl out of the water. That's not good for the pump, so you'd turn down the flow a bit until it stops doing that. Theoretically the Rebel will climb and clean the walls, but I've never seen much value in that, so I adjust mine such that it doesn't go near the surface, just to be on the safe side.

Follow the directions carefully regarding hose length and weight placement, they're both important for optimal cleaning performance.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

But, but, I posted the "Knock On Wood" cartoon! This is all @Mayorb's fault!

You're allowed to have soup again, the suction cleaner was easily fixed. Just pulled the oscillator assembly out and removed the debris. I decided to open it up and check the gears and cam - everything is clean and moving freely.

The one thing I love about the KK Sandshark is that it is stupid-simple to repair. You don't even need a screwdriver to open it up to access the internals. You pop the top bumper off and then flip it over and remove rubber padded chassis from the bottom. The top cover comes off and all the gears and parts are right there. It's super easy to see if anything is amiss and if you need to rebuild the internals, it's literally two Phillips head screws and couple of plastic clips that hold everything in place. If you had to replace all the internal gearing, you'd probably be looking at $150 ... maybe. The parts are broken up into concise subunits that are all in the $30-$50 range. Pentair obviously designed these cleaners to be easy to fix in the field so that techs could easily fix them and it would be worth their time to do so.

 

[Dirk]

You're allowed to have soup again, the suction cleaner was easily fixed. Just pulled the oscillator assembly out and removed the debris. I decided to open it up and check the gears and cam - everything is clean and moving freely.

The one thing I love about the KK Sandshark is that it is stupid-simple to repair. You don't even need a screwdriver to open it up to access the internals. You pop the top bumper off and then flip it over and remove rubber padded chassis from the bottom. The top cover comes off and all the gears and parts are right there. It's super easy to see if anything is amiss and if you need to rebuild the internals, it's literally two Phillips head screws and couple of plastic clips that hold everything in place. If you had to replace all the internal gearing, you'd probably be looking at $150 ... maybe. The parts are broken up into concise subunits that are all in the $30-$50 range. Pentair obviously designed these cleaners to be easy to fix in the field so that techs could easily fix them and it would be worth their time to do so.

I wonder if the Rebel is equally simple inside (and to get inside). I see some repair kits online for about the same $150, but the entire head (wheels and all) is about $225 (up from about $200 not to long ago). I've said before and still think that just buying the whole head is the way to go. Then save the old one (at least the wheels) for parts. Might be the more cost-effective solution, especially if you're due for new wheels.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I wonder if the Rebel is equally simple inside (and to get inside). I see some repair kits online for about the same $150, but the entire head (wheels and all) is about $225 (up from about $200 not to long ago). I've said before and still think that just buying the whole head is the way to go. Then save the old one (at least the wheels) for parts. Might be the more cost-effective solution, especially if you're due for new wheels.

epoolsupply-dot-com has lots of good instructional videos on their YouTube channel for all of the stuff they sell and repair, all the major brands. They also have an extensive replacement parts stock for sale. So you might watch a video or two on their YouTube channel just to see how it's done and what's needed. Often times with these suction powered cleaners, you'll find that the gears wear down over time and then they become less reliable. Also, if there's lots of plastic clips holding it together, they can start to degrade from chlorine exposure and lose their springy-ness. So it can sometimes be the case that you replace one component only to find other stuff that should probably be replaced too. But it doesn't hurt to open it up and look at "the magic" on the inside to see how it's doing.

 

[DanF]

Pentair Kreepy Krawly Sandshark is what I have. @Dirk has the Pentair Rebel.

On the Hayward side the Navigator is the go to suction model there but I have no experience with that.

Polaris has some very fancy wheeled suction cleaners. Not heard much about them.

Zodiac does their Barracuda line. Again, no experience with that.

One thing I will absolutely recommend - use an in-line leaf canister to catch debris. I had a suction line clog once and it was no fun at all to fix. I like the small Hayward canister (W560 I think?) as it has a hard plastic strainer in it that you can line with a hairnet which then captures a lot of fine debris. Catching all the junk in a leaf canister helps keep the pump strainer basket and filter clean.

Thanks for the suction-side cleaner recommendations! I talked to Margaret over at Marina, and she indicated my problem was likely the motor, after I told her I always stored the robot out of the pool, and I took apart the impeller and voltage tested the power supply and all was fine.

She said that based on what I had done thus far I was likely capable enough to replace a motor. But...like we used to say in IT, just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD do something. A new motor would run $350-400 and would last, you guessed it, another 3-5 years. Or I could buy a new robot for ~$900 (S200 equivalent).

I definitely agree on the leaf canister. Reduces trips out to the pad to check/empty the pump strainer basket, provides vacation insurance, and reduces the chance of a suction line clog.

I like this one because it’s compact and has the hard plastic internal strainer -

Hayward W560 PoolVac Navigator Standard Leaf Canister

Amazon.com

Hayward also makes a larger version with an exterior handle that’s about twice as large but it only has a coarse mesh bag inside. It works fine but you can not capture fines with it. Don’t bother with the flip-top Pentair version, it’s trash.

I think I had the same canister (W560) back before robot-ville and liked it I also put a hairnet in it. Of course I chucked it when I got my robot. . I remember finding it difficult to remove the screw-off top. Same?

No. The diverter valve is for those that don't have that valve on their pad. I do, and it works great balancing the skimmer and vac.

The other component that Matt described is the included flow meter. You put that inline on the vac's hose and adjust the diverter valve until the meter reads in the optimum range. It's easy. I've placed that meter between the wall port and the hose, and other times between the hose and the vac head. I'm not sure it matters, as flow is generally constant anywhere on its path, given the same diameter conduit.

The other adjustment is just watching it to see if it tries to crawl out of the water. That's not good for the pump, so you'd turn down the flow a bit until it stops doing that. Theoretically the Rebel will climb and clean the walls, but I've never seen much value in that, so I adjust mine such that it doesn't go near the surface, just to be on the safe side.

Follow the directions carefully regarding hose length and weight placement, they're both important for optimal cleaning performance.

Dirk - curious as to why you don't find value in a cleaner that climbs the walls. Do you manually brush the walls?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

A new motor would run $350-400 and would last, you guessed it, another 3-5 years. Or I could buy a new robot for ~$900 (S200 equivalent).

Yeah. $400 for the new motor and you can definitely do it yourself … but once you replace that, what about the tracks? What about the wheels where the hubs and shafts have been worn down with age? What about the brushes? What about the rubber seals around the intake opening? Those are all worn and old too … eventually, it just turns into throwing good money after bad and you enter the endless cycle of expensive repairs and cascading failures. So at that point, buying the new cleaner for $900 makes a lot more sense.

I think I had the same canister (W560) back before robot-ville and liked it I also put a hairnet in it. Of course I chucked it when I got my robot. . I remember finding it difficult to remove the screw-off top. Same?

Yup, the lid can be a bit of rabid-bear to wrestle open. I almost always win the battle though with just a few scrapes and a slightly wet tee shirt. Occasionally a bit of sand or rotting leaf matter with hit me in the face … but I am manly enough to handle it with only a minor temper tantrum and a few “adult words” shouted at the pool sky-gods … My wife says it’s a daily joy of her life to watch me ranting and raving at the pool … gives her a good laugh in the mornings. So it’s all worth it …

 

[Dirk]

Dirk - curious as to why you don't find value in a cleaner that climbs the walls. Do you manually brush the walls?

I barely have anything on the bottom, I don't imagine there is much of anything stuck to the vertical walls. Vacuuming them just means wasted pump runtime (or less attention paid to the bottom, however you look at it). The Rebel head doesn't brush anything, so even if there was gunk stuck to the walls well enough not to fall off to the bottom, I don't know that a Rebel could do anything about it.

I brush my pool all the time. Well, OK, a lot of the time. Geez, honestly? Well, some of the time. Alright already, I give, I never brush my pool. But you'll never get me to admit it!

 

[DanF]

Yup, the lid can be a bit of rabid-bear to wrestle open

I'm trying to remember the steps. Turn pump off, then take hose off of both ends of the canister. Remove canister from pool, take top off and empty. Then reconnect to hoses and restart pump?

 

[DanF]

I barely have anything on the bottom, I don't imagine there is much of anything stuck to the vertical walls. Vacuuming them just means wasted pump runtime (or less attention paid to the bottom, however you look at it). The Rebel head doesn't brush anything, so even if there was gunk stuck to the walls well enough not to fall off to the bottom, I don't know that a Rebel could do anything about it.

I brush my pool all the time. Well, OK, a lot of the time. Geez, honestly? Well, some of the time. Alright already, I give, I never brush my pool. But you'll never get me to admit it!

Dirk I think your pool is in some sort of bubble that prevents all foreign material from permeating in.