Balancing water using the Taylor Watergram Calculator

DYeatman

Member
Jan 5, 2021
9
Melbourne, Florida
Hello all! The circular calculator that comes in the Taylor test kit- how much stock do you put in it? Here is the problem I'm considering: Current numbers are as follows- TA 65, PH 7.6, CH 320, Temp 75. According to teh calculator this puts my saturation index at right around zero- great! However, in a few short months my temp will rise to 90 and at that time, assuming I want to keep my TA and PH near where they are at, this suggests I should lower my CH to around 230- which is of course much lower than what TFP suggests. In the warmer temps, if I keep a higher CH and adjust the PH/TA, these values again fall lower than what TFP recommends for me. I've heard in these forums that water temp is not considered a major player in balance but this calculator suggests otherwise. I would love to hear some expert thoughts on this subject :) Thanks!
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
24,208
The Watergram requires that you use the “Adjusted TA”.

The adjusted alkalinity is the TA - (CYA x cf).

Cf is the correction factor, which is based on the pH.

pH........CF
7.0.......0.22
7.1.......0.24
7.2.......0.26
7.3.......0.28
7.4.......0.30
7.5.......0.32
7.6.......0.33
7.7.......0.34
7.8.......0.35
7.9.......0.36

For example, if the pH = 7.6, TA = 90 and CYA = 70, the adjusted alkalinity is 90 - (70 x 0.33) = 67.

In any case, it’s a lot easier to use the PoolMath app or page.


What are the readings for CYA and salt?
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
24,985
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Provide specific numbers for this discussion.

What numbers do you think TFP recommends for you and what are you targeting?
 

DYeatman

Member
Jan 5, 2021
9
Melbourne, Florida
The Watergram requires that you use the “Adjusted TA”.

The adjusted alkalinity is the TA - (CYA x cf).

Cf is the correction factor, which is based on the pH.

pH........CF
7.0.......0.22
7.1.......0.24
7.2.......0.26
7.3.......0.28
7.4.......0.30
7.5.......0.32
7.6.......0.33
7.7.......0.34
7.8.......0.35
7.9.......0.36

For example, if the pH = 7.6, TA = 90 and CYA = 70, the adjusted alkalinity is 90 - (70 x 0.33) = 67.

In any case, it’s a lot easier to use the PoolMath app or page.


What are the readings for CYA and salt?
Wow! Adjusted TA? I learn something new every time! My Chlorine is at 5 today and my CYA is at 45...
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
24,985
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Pool math recommends a target TA of 70, PH 7.6, CH above 350, CYA 45 and FC at 6. I did not mention in my op that my FC today is at 5 and CYA at 45.


Gives the recommended ranges. Anything within the recommended range is ok. Don't fixate on specific numbers in PoolMath
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
24,208
When you use PoolMath, you will see that your numbers work out fine.

You can allow the pH to rise some now and lower it if necessary as the water warms up.

What chlorine do you use?

Do you have a salinity reading?
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
24,208
Liquid chlorine adds a lot of salt.

You should get a salt test kit and track your salinity as it affects the CSI.
 

DYeatman

Member
Jan 5, 2021
9
Melbourne, Florida
Fabulous, I just recalculated using the adjusted alkalinity formula that James W provided. This 100% answers my question and puts everything in line for the temps I'm in and the warmer temps of the summer months. In response to a couple of the answers on this post- I do follow the pool math suggestions and understand there is a range. This question was strictly to elevate my understanding and James W gave a great answer that did just that. Thanks! PS, I wonder why the Taylor Watergram does not indicate 'adjusted' alkalinity, it asks for Total Alkalinity...
 

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JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
24,208
Using PH 7.6, TA 65, CH 320, CYA 45, salt 1,500 and Temp 75, we get a CSI of -0.24.

Allowing the pH to rise to 7.9 will bring the CSI to 0.05.

At 90 degrees, the CSI will be -0.01 if you drop the pH to 7.7.

The book that comes with the Taylor kit does mention the adjusted TA.
 

DYeatman

Member
Jan 5, 2021
9
Melbourne, Florida
Using PH 7.6, TA 65, CH 320, CYA 45, salt 1,500 and Temp 75, we get a CSI of -0.24.

Allowing the pH to rise to 7.9 will bring the CSI to 0.05.

At 90 degrees, the CSI will be -0.01 if you drop the pH to 7.7.

The book that comes with the Taylor kit does mention the adjusted TA.
Yes, I was troubled because my CH is on the low end of what TFP recommends. This info you have provided makes me feel confident in raising my CH a bit...
 
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JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
24,208
Note that it's not really important to target a specific TA, pH or calcium hardness as long as the CSI works out OK.

The pH should be between 7.2 and 7.9, but TA and calcium can be wherever they need to be to create a good CSI and a stable pH.

 
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DYeatman

Member
Jan 5, 2021
9
Melbourne, Florida
Note that it's not really important to target a specific TA, pH or calcium hardness as long as the CSI works out OK.

The pH should be between 7.2 and 7.9, but TA and calcium can be wherever they need to be to create a good CSI and a stable pH.

Thanks James W. The only thing in this thread that is a little over my head is the topic of salt/saline, so I have some learning to do. Is there a good starting point for understanding saline levels in a Non-SWG pool? Is there another tool/calculator that factors saline in CSI (as the Taylor Watergram does not)?
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
24,208

The poolmath page calculates CSI with all factors considered.

For poolmath or the app, you use total alkalinity and not adjusted alkalinity.

 
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JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
24,208
PoolMath has a section at the bottom called “Effects of adding chemicals” where it calculates the effects of adding chemicals (requires correct pool size in gallons entered into pool size field).

For example, adding 10 gallons of 12.5% liquid chlorine increases the salinity by 152 ppm (pool volume = 13,500 gallons).

You can estimate the salinity of your water based on the total amount of liquid chlorine you have used but the best way is to use a K-1766 salt test kit.

 
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