Automated Testing

[Oly]

I've been following this thread and thank all of you for offering your perspective. I find the options provided by tech fascinating and am always exploring innovative uses for new methods and systems. That said, I appreciate time tested methods and I have a high bar for new systems that rely on more moving parts. I also am not keen on adding monthly fees, prefer to own my tools free and clear and maintain them myself if possible.

 

[poolnovice1]

20 mins a week over the course of a year is over 17 hours. That’s a lot and even more when you start adding additional years. I can find better things to do with 17hrs of time than test my pool water if it can be done with the same or better accuracy than I can.

Many legit companies advertise on social media. Once you’ve searched it yourself you’re going to get ads about it. Just recently we bought a Peloton and now my wife’s Facebook page is covered with Peloton and Nordic track ads. Both reputable companies within the fitness equipment sector.

As for clueless pool owners. I would argue that these same clueless pool owners may be more informed than the average. The Lamotte Spintouch device used by most pool stores these days have been NSF certified to read most parameters. In some cases higher than Taylor drop reagents.

It’s also very important to understand that NSF applies no bias toward testing equipment. They don’t care if its Taylor, Lamotte, or TFP.net(which really is a repackaging of Taylor). They provide science based facts when certifying products.

NSF has already certified some automated testing products like PH and ORP probes. Once they certify a FC probe or device like Sutro that is reasonably priced and easy to implement I’m on board. It’s coming.

What about all the time fiddling with the Sutro? Recharging and swapping out batteries, replacing test cartridges, and dropped wifi connections? And are we to assume that a electronic device exposed to chlorinated water and the elements 24/7 won't need regular replacement and/or repair? All in all, I doubt one would see a significant time saving.

I'll wait at least a year and read reviews of long-term use before I consider it. I hope it is as simple to use and reliable as the marketing suggests it will be. I will buy one if it lives up to its own hype.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

If you want to see what life is like with automated testing, go spend a few hundred dollars on some good probes - pH, ORP & TDS (don't bother with amperometric or ion-selective electrodes, they are too expensive for good ones and the cheap ones will not last). Once you get the probes (and all of the calibration solutions necessary to keep them running smoothly), start using them regularly. You will very quickly understand their limitations and quirks. Make sure you store them in their proper storage solutions and keep them calibrated. Then ask yourself this question -

If I miniaturize this, put it in a plastic package with some WiFi and let it sit in my pool water, is this going to be an easier test methodology then simply grabbing a water sample and doing some drop based testing?

And don’t mistake precision for accuracy … the wrong answer with lots of extra zeros after the decimal point is still the wrong answer …. and a constant stream of wrong answers sent to your web server every 250ms, averaged and statistically analyzed over a 24 hour period doesn’t make the result any more meaningful …

Flagellation of the deceased equine complete!

Mods, you may close this thread now …

 

[crackers8199]

i'll throw in my $0.02, since this has devolved into an anti-automated testing post and not really just about sutro (and i've seen people mention earlier in the thread that people have had issues with their waterguru sense).

i've had a sense for almost a year now...and while it's not perfect, it has been good enough that i've kept it so far. i'm on my third unit right now - the first one was absolutely perfect with both measurements, nearly every time. it died, somehow, we don't know how. they sent me a second unit, which is where the issues started

second and third one have had issues that i'm still working with them on (more on that later). my main problem right now is that the pH measurement is often off by quite a bit...but it's also always in the same direction (high) and high enough that i know when i need to go out and use the drops to test manually. i can watch the pH track up daily and once the sense starts reporting it at 8.0, i start testing every day or every other day with the drops. if the sense is telling me it's in the 7s, i know i'm in the 7s since the sense always measures a bit high. their support team has been very responsive to me (which seems the opposite of what others here have experienced) and have been working with me constantly to figure out why the device always measures my pH higher than what the drops say.

i have had the exact opposite experience of most other people with regards to the FC measurement on the sense...mine is almost always spot on or within 0.5. my issue has been with the pH reading. but again, it's saving me from having to test manually every single day...so that's 5-10 minutes every day i can spend doing something else. my time is worth enough for me to consider that to be worth it. even more so if we ever figure out what's going on with their pH measurements. i still do my full slate of water tests once a week, and as i've said test the pH manually once the sense tells me it's high...but i trust the FC measurement enough at this point that i only really check it every saturday when i do my full run of tests.

given that my first unit was spot on, every time, i'm hopeful that their tech is close to being ready for primetime (although clearly they still have some work to do based on my second and third devices)...but as long as their support team keeps being as responsive as they are, i'm happy to keep trying to help them get there.

 

[cledee]

i'll throw in my $0.02, since this has devolved into an anti-automated testing post and not really just about sutro (and i've seen people mention earlier in the thread that people have had issues with their waterguru sense).

i've had a sense for almost a year now...and while it's not perfect, it has been good enough that i've kept it so far. i'm on my third unit right now - the first one was absolutely perfect with both measurements, nearly every time. it died, somehow, we don't know how. they sent me a second unit, which is where the issues started

second and third one have had issues that i'm still working with them on (more on that later). my main problem right now is that the pH measurement is often off by quite a bit...but it's also always in the same direction (high) and high enough that i know when i need to go out and use the drops to test manually. i can watch the pH track up daily and once the sense starts reporting it at 8.0, i start testing every day or every other day with the drops. if the sense is telling me it's in the 7s, i know i'm in the 7s since the sense always measures a bit high. their support team has been very responsive to me (which seems the opposite of what others here have experienced) and have been working with me constantly to figure out why the device always measures my pH higher than what the drops say.

i have had the exact opposite experience of most other people with regards to the FC measurement on the sense...mine is almost always spot on or within 0.5. my issue has been with the pH reading. but again, it's saving me from having to test manually every single day...so that's 5-10 minutes every day i can spend doing something else. my time is worth enough for me to consider that to be worth it. even more so if we ever figure out what's going on with their pH measurements. i still do my full slate of water tests once a week, and as i've said test the pH manually once the sense tells me it's high...but i trust the FC measurement enough at this point that i only really check it every saturday when i do my full run of tests.

given that my first unit was spot on, every time, i'm hopeful that their tech is close to being ready for primetime (although clearly they still have some work to do based on my second and third devices)...but as long as their support team keeps being as responsive as they are, i'm happy to keep trying to help them get there.

I don't think most of us are anti-automated testing. It's the fact that you are getting a beta product that's not complete and that you have to spend $300 plus and you have to tinker with it, ect. If I could just purchase a device for $700 and it worked flawlessly like my pool cleaner and let's say it fails 2-5 years. I think I would be willing to shell out $700 every 2 to 5 years for automated water testing. But that's not what you are getting.

 

[crackers8199]

I don't think most of us are anti-automated testing. It's the fact that you are getting a beta product that's not complete and that you have to spend $300 plus and you have to tinker with it, ect. If I could just purchase a device for $700 and it worked flawlessly like my pool cleaner and let's say it fails 2-5 years. I think I would be willing to shell out $700 every 2 to 5 years for automated water testing. But that's not what you are getting.

that may be why i've been ok with it, they have been sending me new units and cartridges to test with this entire time to try to troubleshoot it. so while i did pay for the initial unit, i haven't paid a dime in additional costs since then while i'm effectively beta testing for them.

 

[joboo7777]

What about all the time fiddling with the Sutro? Recharging and swapping out batteries, replacing test cartridges, and dropped wifi connections? And are we to assume that a electronic device exposed to chlorinated water and the elements 24/7 won't need regular replacement and/or repair? All in all, I doubt one would see a significant time saving.

I'll wait at least a year and read reviews of long-term use before I consider it. I hope it is as simple to use and reliable as the marketing suggests it will be. I will buy one if it lives up to its own hype.

Ah good question. Fiddling with technology is fun no??? For those who are techies can relate to this. Being able to solve a problem with automation is gratifying. I feel a sense of accomplishment whenI can use technology to solve my problems. I felt this when implementing my sense & dispense by Hayward. With all the negative reviews With little science behind them, I took it as a challenge. And today, My system is automated to the point where the only manual tasks I do is fill the chemical dispensers every few months and change my skimmer socks. And of course the manual FC testing done which I would gladly give up for a proven automated solution.

 

[Oly]

And don’t mistake precision for accuracy

Understanding the definition of these terms was prioity #1 in Laboratory Techniques class, day #1.

 

[joboo7777]

Understanding the definition of these terms was prioity #1 in Laboratory Techniques class, day #1.

Agreed. As long as it’s NSF certified L1 or L2 I’m good.

 

[jtpipkin]

@JoyfulNoise - you all right? It's just a friendly discussion...

 

[JoyfulNoise]

@JoyfulNoise - you all right? It's just a friendly discussion...

Me? I'm fine. I only know how to be friendly Please don't interpret my skepticism as ill-will. I am a skeptic by nature and, having lived a long technology-filled life with lots of promises about how the IoT revolution is "just around the corner" and "will transform my life" I must say ... it's been one veeeeeeery looooooooong corner. Still waiting for that life changing moment I'm sure my completely un-automated home with manual light switches, my garage with gas powered automobiles, my 24VAC analog door bell that doesn't spy on my porch, and my Siri permanently disabled on all devices would be horrifying to some ... to me, it's blissful quiet and peace with no need to "check the router" so my toaster can tell me what the Dow Jones did that day... We turn off our lights here around 9pm (assuming I don't forget to flip one of those evil manual switches controlling my porch light), shortly after the sun goes down so that we can get our rest to enjoy another day when my neighbors rooster wakes us up at O'dark-early (the rooster is far more effective than Siri ever could be).

I will admit, I do binge-watch original Start Trek episodes every now and again because I never get tired of watching Ensign No-Name get taken out within the first 2 mins of the opening scene ... never wear the red Ensign outfit or you'll be doomed!!

 

[joboo7777]

Me? I'm fine. I only know how to be friendly Please don't interpret my skepticism as ill-will. I am a skeptic by nature and, having lived a long technology-filled life with lots of promises about how the IoT revolution is "just around the corner" and "will transform my life" I must say ... it's been one veeeeeeery looooooooong corner. Still waiting for that life changing moment I'm sure my completely un-automated home with manual light switches, my garage with gas powered automobiles, my 24VAC analog door bell that doesn't spy on my porch, and my Siri permanently disabled on all devices would be horrifying to some ... to me, it's blissful quiet and peace with no need to "check the router" so my toaster can tell me what the Dow Jones did that day... We turn off our lights here around 9pm (assuming I don't forget to flip one of those evil manual switches controlling my porch light), shortly after the sun goes down so that we can get our rest to enjoy another day when my neighbors rooster wakes us up at O'dark-early (the rooster is far more effective than Siri ever could be).

I will admit, I do binge-watch original Start Trek episodes every now and again because I never get tired of watching Ensign No-Name get taken out within the first 2 mins of the opening scene ... never wear the red Ensign outfit or you'll be doomed!!

Nothing wrong with this way of thinking at all! I miss it sometimes.

Hold on a sec.. need to tell Alexa to turn my hot tub on!!!

 

[poolnovice1]

Ah good question. Fiddling with technology is fun no??? For those who are techies can relate to this. Being able to solve a problem with automation is gratifying. I feel a sense of accomplishment whenI can use technology to solve my problems. I felt this when implementing my sense & dispense by Hayward. With all the negative reviews With little science behind them, I took it as a challenge. And today, My system is automated to the point where the only manual tasks I do is fill the chemical dispensers every few months and change my skimmer socks. And of course the manual FC testing done which I would gladly give up for a proven automated solution.

Whether it is fun or not is besides the point. Your point that it it will save 17 hours a year was based on flawed logic because you did not consider the time spent on maintaining the automated testing unit. As to whether it's "fun" who the heck cares. This is not a discussion about the most fun way to test your chemicals. Some might find manual testing "fun".

 

[joboo7777]

Whether it is fun or not is besides the point. Your point that it it will save 17 hours a year was based on flawed logic because you did not consider the time spent on maintaining the automated testing unit. As to whether it's "fun" who the heck cares. This is not a discussion about the most fun way to test your chemicals. Some might find manual testing "fun".

It manual testing is fun then I would encourage those folks to continue doing it. I’m not asking anyone to stop having fun!

 

[cledee]

The algorithms got me, I got an ad for Sutro.

 

[Katodude]

Skynet became self aware today.

 

[Oly]

OH joy, so where do you get the permit to launch 1500 satellites that circle the globe?
We were in the mountains last month around the campfire at about 9:45pm (no internet) when we spotted a string of "stars" in a straight line for nearly 3 minutes. We counted over 50 and had to try and sleep not knowing what we all saw. The next day on the way home after checking the net for news on the end of the world, we learned they were Musk's flying monkeys.

 

[Katodude]

OH joy, so where do you get the permit to launch 1500 satellites that circle the globe?

City hall, where else do you get your permits from?

 

[joboo7777]

Mine arrives Tuesday (don’t kick me out TFP peeps, I promise to only use my Taylor test kit results in any posts ).

I do still plan to use my test kit on a regular basis. I’m currently trying to build and strengthen my pool maintenance habits/routine. I tend to lose focus so this is just an additional tool I plan to use.

I’ll let you know my experience! The nice thing is they have a 1 year “no questions asked” money back guarantee. So if it’s a dud, I’ll just return it .

So?? Don’t leave us hanging here! What’s the verdict?

 

[Kslay0721]

So?? Don’t leave us hanging here! What’s the verdict?

HA HA! I was thinking about all of your fine folks!! I wish I had an update for you but I have yet to actually put Sutro in the water!! I am coming off a SLAM and was waiting for my FC to drop to 5ppm but it's taking longer to drop than I anticipated. I guess that's a good sign I got all that Dang algae .

Sutro only advertises being able to report on FC ranges from 0-5ppm so I didn't want to put it in there with higher than normal CL levels and skew the data it's reporting on my pool. I plan to put it in here within the next hour or so and then the owner's log says it will take 24-48 hours for my first reading as it calibrates and gets to "know my pool". Stand by!!