Are my 3 LED lights to GFCI Code?

[tstex]

Hello to all,

I'm starting a new thread that originated from the one below to determine water pump flow & if my spa light niche is leaking?

How to get my VSP to pull water from Spa to Pool ?

Hello to all, [Correction: Title should read: "How to 'get' VSP to pull water from Spa to Pool" Allen has been helping me w troubleshooting a leak in my spa. A PB stated that most leaks are from the light niche, but I am not 100% it is the light niche. So, I might have to see if one of the...

www.troublefreepool.com

The first pic is my pool breaker panel and the second pic is the circuit breaker that feeds my LED lights. The bottom 2 right EATON breakers do not look to be GFCI rated to me. Am I missing something? Are these code?

The last series of pics are the junction boxes where the main panel feeds the LED lights, then the three runs to the LED Lights: 2 pool & 1 spa.

The first pic is where the feed from panel comes in, then connecting the 2 pool lights and feeding the spa light

The next 2 pics are close ups of one of the lines feeding a pool light and the other pool light. I get the 14ga blk, white & green, but what is the much larger Blk wire? Is that a pull wire for feeding the line through conduit? The larger Blk wires are even wired-nutted together.

The last pic is a general perspective pic of both LED light junction boxes.

My main concerns:, are the LED lights on GFCI Circuits and what is the larger Blk wire in the junction boxes?

Thank you very much,
tstex

 

[ajw22]

Your light CB is not GFCI.

I cannot see clearly the thick black wire. Is that one wire or multiple wires? It could be the light niche bonding wire.

 

[tstex]

Your light CB is not GFCI.

I cannot see clearly the thick black wire. Is that one wire or multiple wires? It could be the light niche bonding wire.

"Your light CB is not GFCI."

Isn't it supposed to be?

"I cannot see clearly the thick black wire. Is that one wire or multiple wires?"

There is one thick black casing that encloses the hot, neutral and ground. Then a single blk wire w each pool light run, but not as thick as the black casing of the 3 wires. Does that help?

 

[ajw22]

How old is your pool?

The current NEC code says the pool light CB should be GFCI if you have 120V to the lights. Many pools are grandfathered under older codes before the requirement. Some folks live in areas where there is no code inspection or code requirement.

The thick single black wire sounds like a bonding wire.

 

[tstex]

Pool was completed in Jan 2015, but electrical in Nov-Dec 2014..

We live in major city w major city codes. In fact, the panel was "red-tagged" the day after it was installed bc it was installed right in front of the main pump and you need clear access to control/electrical panel.

If it was code to GFCI the LED lights at original time of install, do I have any recourse w PB or City to enforce code compliance of the PB? Also, I have not seen any GFCI breakers w dual individual switches like the EATON's...I'm currently out of CB space.

 

[ajw22]

If it was code to GFCI the LED lights at original time of install, do I have any recourse w PB or City to enforce code compliance of the PB? Also, I have not seen any GFCI breakers w dual individual switches like the EATON's...I'm currently out of CB space.

Yup, panel space is your issue otherwise it would be as simple as installing a GFCI CB.

There may be something that the electrician did in the connections to make it code compliant that are not obvious.

Otherwise you combine the lights with one of the other three 120V things on one GFCI CB.

You can inquire to your PB or the electrician who did the work and ask what is going on. I would not bring the City into this as it can backfire on you.

 

[tstex]

Thanks Allen.

I'm not aware of anything the electrician did that's obvious to make it code compliant. Using tandem breakers where GFCI's are required is not permissible based on my research. If there's anything inside, next to or downstream from the panel that I need to ck, I will do so.

Yup, won't call the City in on this one & I cannot remember the electrical contractors name. The PB was a joke at the end..there was a punch list a mile long...

At least I know what CB to turn off to check the light niche when I ck it for leaks.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tx,

Often lights are GFCI protected by the GFCI electrical outlet that some panels have mounted in the side.. Not sure if your has an outlet or not.

They take the power from the outlet and run it to the line side of a relay and the load side of the relay goes to the light.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[tstex]

Thanks Jim. I initially looked at the outlet coming off the panel and it was not a GFCI outlet but it was a weatherproof one.

 

[Newdude]

There may be something that the electrician did in the connections to make it code compliant that are not obvious.

Often lights are GFCI protected by the GFCI electrical outlet that some panels have

Thats how mine works. I have an accessory GFCI outlet inside my panel and the lights are the load side of the outlet.

 

[tstex]

Mystery solved and I believe I am good but it took a little extra sniffing it out.

The first pic of pool panel w cover off is the tandem breaker that serves the LED lights.
A purple is coming off of one side of the breaker, out the conduit to the FIREBOWL subpanel. From this subpanel, it goes down another conduit to a GFCI outlet.

Since the inception of the pool, Jan 2015 go live date, I've never had to reset the GFCI outlet that serves the LED lights.
If I'm reading this wrong, pls advise.

Thanks for everyone's help and assistance.

Be safe,
tstex

 

[Randrx2]

Wow! This looks confusing!

Have you pressed the test button on the GFCI outlet and see if your lights go off?

Also, what about the other loads: Display, Firebowl, Plug? Are they GFCI protected? I am assuming the plug is another GFCI plug somewhere though. ALL outdoor receptacles need to be GFCI protected. There's an exception for a dedicated circuit to ice melting equipment (like on the eave of a house).

 

[tstex]

"Have you pressed the test button on the GFCI outlet and see if your lights go off?"

Good questions. Yes, when LED lights are on and GFCI outlet is tripped, the LED's go off.

The display is off of the same tandem breaker and firebowl sub-panel is where the GFCI is located.

 

[ajw22]

I assumed the breaker marked PLUGS powered the outdoor GFCI outlet.

That is what I meant by the electrician could have done something behind the scenes to make it code compliant.

 

[Randrx2]

"Have you pressed the test button on the GFCI outlet and see if your lights go off?"

Good questions. Yes, when LED lights are on and GFCI outlet is tripped, the LED's go off.

The display is off of the same tandem breaker and firebowl sub-panel is where the GFCI is located.

That's a plus. Are the firebowls close to the pool? Are they GFCI protected? If not, it may be as simple as adding another GFCI outlet and then feeding those bowls.

I am not aware of any GFCI breakers in a tandem single pole configuration.

 

[tstex]

Aftn Allen,

Actually, the "plug" breaker goes to a standard outdoor weather resistant 110 covered outlet that is not a GFCI. They connected the Tandem CB w a purple wire to the Fbowl subpanel, then from that subpanel off comes the GFCI outlet. They originally had the GFCI outlet coming of the side of the pool panel, but the whole panel was retagged bc it was placed in front of the main pump, and code dictates a clear path. So when it was moved 2-3 feet to the right, and the GFCI plug being on the bottom right. When the PB reinstalled the fence they took down for bobcat excavation, the corner fence 4x4 blocked the GFCI outlet. Bc there were no more CB slots left, they ran the GFCI off of the fire bowl sub-panel. This PB was highly recommended by a very reputable nbor of mine..he's since apologized many times...

 

[ajw22]

Aftn Allen,

Actually, the "plug" breaker goes to a standard outdoor weather resistant 110 covered outlet that is not a GFCI.

Every outdoor outlet around the house should be GFCI.

Well now we have "the rest of the story" on how your simple pool electrical got so bizarre. You should print out this thread, or a summary explanation, and put it in a plastic sleve by an indoor electrical panel for future caretakers of your house yo have a roadmap of what was done. I have done that with a few things in my house that ash helped me remember stuff over the years that the previous owner left no explanation about.

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

I actually prefer the GFCI to be a separate outlet as you can then pick and choose replacements, which are a lot less expensive. My pool lights are on one separate GFCI in a waterproof box mounted to the pool panel and then I added a circuit breaker and second GFCI for the SWCG I am installing with the GFCI for that at the place where I am going to install the control panel (Why? If one trips I know which device did it.). What you describe isn't against code or even that unusual. In my new developer house I swear they used $25 of wire to avoid installing another $10 GFCI in multiple places. If I have the outdoor outlet in the back of my house trip the GFCI I have to reset it in the front of the house in the garage....

 

[tstex]

Every outdoor outlet around the house should be GFCI.

Well now we have "the rest of the story" on how your simple pool electrical got so bizarre. You should print out this thread, or a summary explanation, and put it in a plastic sleve by an indoor electrical panel for future caretakers of your house yo have a roadmap of what was done. I have done that with a few things in my house that ash helped me remember stuff over the years that the previous owner left no explanation about.

Lol / I believe that's called "seller disclosure"

Now off to figuring out how to remove this spa light which originated these 2 posts so I can see if this is leaking or the drains