Aqualogic problems

[Bboandmary]

@JamesW - hoping to pick your brain on this old thread because I have the same problem and find myself right at the step where Rob's system suddenly started working! I am getting good voltage from the transformer into the board (24 VAC) at the yellow terminals. However, I am reading 6 VAC when testing the orange terminals. When I change polarities on the DIAGNOSTIC menu (both + and -), the multimeter will jump to ~15 VAC but then immediately drop back to 6 and give me the NO CELL POWER message. So I'm upstream of the bridge rectifiers and downstream of the transformer (and 20 A fuse is good), so I'm at a loss for where on the board to look next. Help!!
thanks, Bill

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Have you disconnected all relays, actuators, and SWG cell from the board?

Something is loading down the voltage.

 

[Bboandmary]

everything is connected - are you saying to disconnect those things and test again?
As a recap, I had an EE neighbor go through the initial NO CELL POWER diagnosis (had the burnt solder on the back near the K1 relay - replaced the relay because it showed heat damage and resoldered/tested circuit integrity). Having done that, everything was initially disconnected as we worked on the board and then reconnected.

 

[Bboandmary]

couldn't isolate anything loading down voltage - readings never changed as I disconnected everything one by one.
Question - is voltage at orange spades (input for rectifiers) supposed to always be 24 VAC, or only when SWG commanded on (so is K1 relay still possibly faulty?)? It reads about 6 VAC and then momentarily jumps (only to about 15 VAC) when I force a polarity change but then drops again with an immediate NO CELL POWER message. Diodes in bridge rectifiers check good - I just can't seem to get correct 24VAC to them! Is there anyway that my SWG is bad instead of the PCB? Is K1 upstream or downstream of 24VAC power path - or is it gatekeeping the VDC power that is coming off of the rectifiers?

As background, K1 relay was replaced and soldering fixed because there was the typical burnt/bad contact on back of board when this all started. I have the AquaLogic GLX-PCB-MAIN board.

 

[mas985]

couldn't isolate anything loading down voltage - readings never changed as I disconnected everything one by one.
Question - is voltage at orange spades (input for rectifiers) supposed to always be 24 VAC, or only when SWG commanded on (so is K1 relay still possibly faulty?)? It reads about 6 VAC and then momentarily jumps (only to about 15 VAC) when I force a polarity change but then drops again with an immediate NO CELL POWER message. Diodes in bridge rectifiers check good - I just can't seem to get correct 24VAC to them! Is there anyway that my SWG is bad instead of the PCB? Is K1 upstream or downstream of 24VAC power path - or is it gatekeeping the VDC power that is coming off of the rectifiers?

AC from the transformer yellow wires, are switched through K1 and then travel to the rectifiers via the orange wires. So the orange wires are only energized when the K1 relay is turned on. After the rectifiers, the black and red wires go back to the board where the DC is filtered by the large capacitors and connect to the K2 & K3 relays.

One thing you can try is to remove the black and red wires from the board and put a DC meter on the leads. Then reset the cell so the K1 connects and measure the DC voltage. However, it will be transient as the board will detect no voltage and turn off the K1 relay.

As background, K1 relay was replaced and soldering fixed because there was the typical burnt/bad contact on back of board when this all started. I have the AquaLogic GLX-PCB-MAIN board.

That is the usual problem with these board.

Some more diagnostics:

https://mcprod.hayward.com/media/wysiwyg/pdf/automation/prologic-aqualogic-consumer-trouble-shooting-guide.pdf

 

[Bboandmary]

very helpful - makes sense that nothing comes off the board (orange wires) to be switched to DC until commanded by the K1. I'll check to red/black leads to see if I get anywhere near the 22 VDC I should expect, but based on the mid-teens VAC transient I got out of the orange spades when switching polarities, I doubt enough juice is coming off the board into the rectifiers. I'm thinking that there is something still wrong in the circuit continuity going to/through the K1 relay even though i replaced it and fixed the cold solder. Is there anything else between where the transformer connects to the board (good 24 VAC) and where it comes back out to the orange spades besides the K1 relay?
I've seen and run through the troubleshooting powerpoint and have the reviewed the "Hayward Aquarite SWG - Further Reading" and "Hayward AquaLogic SWG - Further Reading" - unfortunately, the info is great for the ProLogic / Aquarite GLX-PCB-RITE board, but light on info/schematics for the GLX-PCB-MAIN board.

 

[mas985]

very helpful - makes sense that nothing comes off the board (orange wires) to be switched to DC until commanded by the K1. I'll check to red/black leads to see if I get anywhere near the 22 VDC I should expect, but based on the mid-teens VAC transient I got out of the orange spades when switching polarities, I doubt enough juice is coming off the board into the rectifiers.

Again, try this while either the black or red leads are disconnected so there is no load on the transformer and rectifiers.

I'm thinking that there is something still wrong in the circuit continuity going to/through the K1 relay even though i replaced it and fixed the cold solder. Is there anything else between where the transformer connects to the board (good 24 VAC) and where it comes back out to the orange spades besides the K1 relay?

Only some of the board traces. BTW, one of the yellow directly connects to the nearby orange. It is only one pair of yellow and orange that go through the K1 relay.

I've seen and run through the troubleshooting powerpoint and have the reviewed the "Hayward Aquarite SWG - Further Reading" and "Hayward AquaLogic SWG - Further Reading" - unfortunately, the info is great for the ProLogic / Aquarite GLX-PCB-RITE board, but light on info/schematics for the GLX-PCB-MAIN board.

The PDF I posted is for the AquaLogic:

https://mcprod.hayward.com/media/wy...aqualogic-consumer-trouble-shooting-guide.pdf

 

[Bboandmary]

Again, try this while either the black or red leads are disconnected so there is no load on the transformer and rectifiers.


Only some of the board traces. BTW, one of the yellow directly connects to the nearby orange. It is only one pair of yellow and orange that go through the K1 relay.




The PDF I posted is for the AquaLogic:

https://mcprod.hayward.com/media/wy...aqualogic-consumer-trouble-shooting-guide.pdf

With the black/red wires unplugged, I measured 6 VDC steady state, and then transient spike to 10 VDC (only 8 VDC on other polarity) when forcing SWG on with a polarity change in DIAGNOSTIC menu.
Similarly, orange spades still showing ~8-13 VAC transient spike when forced on.
So still something on the board (K1?) preventing the power from going to rectifiers?

Understood on the correct manual - the one I have is the RESIDENTIAL versus CONSUMER manual which has about 10 additional pages (17-27) and even though it says ProLogic/AquaLogic which are similar, the pictures and all focus on the ProLogic board GLX-PCB-PRO which is slightly different layout from my GLX-PCB-MAIN

https://hayward.com/media/wysiwyg/pdf/automation/PL447c-ProLogic_TSG.pdf

 

[mas985]

With the black/red wires unplugged, I measured 6 VDC steady state, and then transient spike to 10 VDC (only 8 VDC on other polarity) when forcing SWG on with a polarity change in DIAGNOSTIC menu.

You were measuring the VDC between the red and black wires correct?

Similarly, orange spades still showing ~8-13 VAC transient spike when forced on.
So still something on the board (K1?) preventing the power from going to rectifiers?

There could still be some resistance in the K1 solder joints (aka cold solder). Do you have picture of the solder joints?

Understood on the correct manual - the one I have is the RESIDENTIAL versus CONSUMER manual which has about 10 additional pages (17-27) and even though it says ProLogic/AquaLogic which are similar, the pictures and all focus on the ProLogic board GLX-PCB-PRO which is slightly different layout from my GLX-PCB-MAIN

The boards are nearly identical. About the only difference is the large transformer on the MAIN that have been replaced with a smaller transformer on the PRO (i.e. switching power supply). But all the transformer/rectifier and other test points are all the same.

 

[Bboandmary]

Correct - VDC measurements were between Blk/Red wires off of the rectifiers.

I'll have to get a pic of the soldering tomorrow - storming here in DFW now. I think you're right, though - that is probably still the problem area.

Copy on the very minor PRO board differences.

Appreciate all the help, Mark