Any thoughts on this Request For Proposal

[aztec123]

Hi all - getting ready for a fairly thorough renovation of an old pool. Below are my main points that i intend to send out to a few local PBs. Please let me know if I am missing anything or need to be more specific. My initial post about what i am trying to do is here

Heading down renovation road...

Thanks for any thoughts!

Pool Resurfacing

• Drain pool
• Remove all tile and discard
• Remove coping and discard
• Repair and prepare setting bed
• Install new tile around perimeter of pool
• Install new tile around edges of stairs (this is a new feature)
• Install tile in skimmer throats
• Install new coping
• Install new skimmers (to be discussed - will larger skimmers help with maintenance)
• Prepare pool for new plaster (be specific about prep methods)
• Apply new plaster
  • Pricing options for regular white
  • Pricing options for diamond Brite or similar
• Fix leak in shallow skimmer line
• Pressure test system
• Fill pool

Deck Resurface and Prepare

• Remove paint from deck
• Fix deck where it has sunk along back long edge of pool (deck is lower than coping)
  • This is also where the skimmer leak is, so probably need to jackhammer the concrete out, fix skimmer line, and pour replacement concrete
• Patch and resurface deck with all new kool deck or similar – many areas have bad / mismatched patches
• Install drainage around back of large deck area – channels, sump pump, whatever
• New deck-o-seal or equivalent between deck and coping

Potential Additional Work to be Discussed / Priced

• Install lights in pool
• Upgrade equipment for remote monitoring / control (ie be able to turn on heat from remote location)
• Auto-fill
• Consider conversion to salt water chlorination system

Additional

• Additional cost for brushing and initial maintenance
• Warranty details

 

[ctrav]

Good list of stuff Aztec...

My approach would be to request the pool companies to come out for a bid on the renovation project. I would not send them the list of what you think should be done but let them tell you what they will do and then compare to your list. This way you will see if they come close to meeting your expectations without you guiding them. Don't get me wrong your approach works as well...

 

[Dirk]

In my renovation, the plasterers added threaded fittings and eyeballs to my returns (they were just cut pipe). Just did it without me asking. A nice touch, but something to spec if you don't have eyeballs.

You should get a full chip out, down to the original gunite.

I had my drains deleted. Safer. Better looking. No more stepping on them. No more vac getting stuck on them. Easier brushing. If you're circulation is good without them (you could test for that now, if you've been using them at all), then ditch 'em.

+1 for SWG.

+1 for automation. Controller, pump and SWG usually need to be of the same brand for all the automation goodness to shine.

+1 for autofill. My autofill includes an overflow, so my level is always good, rain or shine.

If your contractor (and more importantly the warranty) allows, learn how and do the startup yourself. I guarantee you'll do a better job, even never having done it before, than anybody a contractor leaves behind or recommends to do it. Let TFP guide you. Nobody will care as much as you about this very important component of the process. Along with the actual install methods, the startup process determines how good your plaster will look and feel, and how long it will last. Don't even think about planning to be away from your pool for even a day for the first 30 days.

If you add lights, be sure they don't shine into your house or at where you sit around your pool. Most annoying. They should light your pool away from you, if possible.

 

[aztec123]

Thanks for the tips. I would not have thought about the light direction. I only have one drain, in the deep end. I assume if I delete the drain then I am relying on the skimmers exclusively? My fear with that is there are a LOT of trees around the pool, and twice a year they shed leaves and junk that clog the skimmers in a matter of hours. That's why I'm considering getting larger (or different model) skimmers installed. I wish I could do the startup myself but I have work travel that will likely take me out of town for at least a few days during that time...

 

[Dirk]

The best excuse to have a drain (the only reason, IMO) is to cover for the skimmer(s) should they fail (totally clogged up, or water level drops, etc). For pools where that possibility exists (or is probable), then drains it is. I think you need a float valve in the skimmer, too, for that to work right. Not sure. Didn't go that route myself. I clear my basket of leaves everyday (and don't have that many to begin with), and I have an auto filler, so my skimmer wouldn't run dry. Neither of those solutions is 100% reliable, but reliable enough for me to justify losing the drains. Trade offs...

If any of the pluses of no drains strike you, but you determine you have to have them, then you could look into replacing your current drain. They can add a second one to make it safer. You can get a channel drain that doesn't stick up above the surface level. Or have low-profile drain covers that reduce vac hangups and stubbed toes. Even covers that can be coated with your new finish to disguise them. Lots of options. What you don't want is a big, clunky anti-vortex cover slapped onto your existing drain. That's what they first tried in my pool. Big, obnoxious ugly grey beasts. My vacuum would crawl up on top of them and get stuck, just sit there spinnin' its wheels. Kinda sad, really...

I can find some links to what I'm describing, if you're interested...

 

[aztec123]

Hi all - I have now met with several PBs, and am receiving quotes for the work described before. The quotes for the actual pool work are (more or less) all coming in near each other. I will try to post a comparison but its tough because they all slice and dice the job into different components. But the deck continues to be the source of much discussion and very different recommendations.

To review, it is a concrete deck, with some sort of kool deck knock down surface on top. On top of the kool deck surface it has been painted several times with some sort of deck paint. The deck paint is slippery when wet (kids have fallen) and is chipping and ugly. The Kool deck has delaminated from the underlying concrete in many places, has many ugly patches, and is a poor surface for this pool because there is lots of foliage around the pool, water and dirt/foliage pool in the recesses of the kool deck and basically it looks like there is dirt or mold everywhere, and is impossible to clean, even with my power washer. Lastly there are a few sections of the deck that have settled/drooped below the coping, and probably need to be ripped out and repoured (there may be a leak under them causing the droop).

One option that has been proposed is to grind the paint and kool deck off, and then polish the stone aggregate underneath. I am waiting to see this full proposal to understand it because it seems to me that would leave my deck ~ ¼ to ½ inch lower than my coping.

Another proposal is to not use new (or any) coping and pour a new cantilevered deck/coping over the entire old deck. The new layer of concrete would be 3 ½ to 4 inches thick. My questions today mainly revolve around this option. Is this really done in areas with real winters? I live in the Hudson valley area, so we freeze. It seems like this would create lots of deck expansion vs tile issues somewhere where they meet? The contractor described putting plastic between the old deck and the new, and between the tile and the poured coping, and used the term “floating”. It almost sounds like the creation of a “hinge” at the pivot point between tile/pool concrete, and the deck concrete.
Has anyone done gone down this particular path (new cantilevered deck poured over old deck with removal of existing stone coping?

Thanks for any help.

 

[tim5055]

One option that has been proposed is to grind the paint and kool deck off, and then polish the stone aggregate underneath. I am waiting to see this full proposal to understand it because it seems to me that would leave my deck ~ ¼ to ½ inch lower than my coping.

I would not think a coating of Kool Deck with a couple of layers of paint would be much more than 1/8 inch, certainly no where near 1/2 inch.

Another thing to think about while you are doing this work is to make sure you have a VGB Compliant main drain cover. Many older residential pools did not get this work done, so now is the time to address it if if is not compliant.

 

[Dirk]

If I had to have a drain, it'd look like this:

http://www.poolfittings.com/channel-pebble-top/

 

[aztec123]

Yes - all the PB’s included upgrades to the drain. That part of the plan seems to be in good shape. Thanks!

 

[jimmythegreek]

Don't do either w regards to concrete. U will have voids between that will gather water and freeze then heave the new deck on top. If u don't want a full ripout patch the bad areas and recoat it w something. U could do renovation pavers and coping over all of it idk how price compares to what ur seeing now

 

[aztec123]

If I grind off the existing Kool Deck, and replace with some sort of tile / pavers, am I right in thinking I can choose from a wider variety of coping? All the PBS mentioned I am currently limited to “renovation coping” due to the need to be flush with the existing deck. I think they said I would need to use 1 1/2 inch or 1 3/4 inch coping. But if I build up the deck via pavers, am I right in thinking I get to look at a wider variety of “normal” height coping? Any ideas what “normal” is? Also, do they make pavers that thin - I assume something like 3/4 inch?

 

[jimmythegreek]

you could have something made up but they make a reno coping thats part of the paver line. Its a paver and a bullnose w a front edge that hides whatever coping you have now. If you wanna go high end since you have a gunit shell you could remove the coping and get something totally different either cast concrete, stone, etc and just have them patch the gap if any and plaster right up to that which would then meet the thin paver height. they make some rly nice stuff for doing reno jobs, but you have an advantage of doing the inside of pool over so you can change to anything. the reno pavers are for ppl who just want to do the deck over mainly, but the paver thickness makes it ideal for your situation.