Any risk in running pump in 10 degree weather without a heater?

[HeyEng]

@Newdude

ONLY requirement I had when we bought our house was a garage to park the vehicle. I lucked out big time, house we found had a garage in the basement which means it’s heated plus has easy access to water. Now, I’ve got a pressure washer hooked up year round to wash all the salt off the van in minutes plus it’s always in the 60’s when I leave for work at 2am

This is so important to me, as well. We have a pretty big garage but it's stuffed to the brim right now since all of our outdoor plants are in there too. Our last garage was below grade and stayed between 63-70 year around, but this house...it's tough to keep it at 50 right now.

 

[HeyEng]

My pool has started to freeze. Only the deep end is snow covered for some weird reason
View attachment 175600

We have a little bit, but it's over the tanning shelf which makes sense. Our neighbor's pool, which is 45 or 50K gallons (and is a beast!) has several large patches floating around (it isn't winterized, either). Current pool temp is 33 degrees with the coldest of the air not yet here.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Here is my next step in getting ready for tomorrow's crazy low temps. I put heated pipe tape on all of the pipes I could, then covered those with a canvas drop cloth. Then I put a tarp over the entire pad, securing it with tent stakes, duct tape, bungee cords, bricks, etc. Hopefully this will be good insurance for the coming days when we may even dip into the negative temps. .

A word of friendly advice, if you go to the store and your cart has duct tape, bungee cords, a tarp and a valentine's day card... you're gonna get some funny looks.

 

[platon20]

So my heater manual says the following which is contradictory and confusing. On one line it says not to run it below 68 and the next line it says it's OK to run it even if the water temp is below 68? I don't get it.

 

[JJ_Tex]

There are a couple of posts on here that say not to. I'm foggy on the science behind it but basically the heater doesnt run very clean at those temps and the condensation will be acidic and eat away and the insides of the heater.

 

[mknauss]

It says if water temp is below 68F, and you start the heater, you need to run it until the pool temperature exceeds 68F.

 

[platon20]

OK I'll have to check my pool settings, I dont know if it's even possible to run the heater effectively if it's constantly switching back and forth circuits between spa and pool when in freeze protection mode.

 

[agcarver]

I'm right down the road from you in Little Elm. I did the same thing and grabbed a shop light with an incandescent bulb and hung it on the pipe next to the pump. Here's hoping things work out.

 

[Leebo]

There are a couple of posts on here that say not to. I'm foggy on the science behind it but basically the heater doesnt run very clean at those temps and the condensation will be acidic and eat away and the insides of the heater.

Heres an article in the Wiki that further explains,

Heater Condensation - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Green25]

@JJ_Tex Covering and tarping must be more effective than I would have expected. I nearly had a heart attack when I noticed our water feature had shut off a few minutes ago, but the freezer alarm I’ve temporarily moved out to the equipment pad is currently reading a toasty 46 degrees!

I feel like I’m back in middle school performing the “which material is the best insulator” experiment.

 

[joboo7777]

It says if water temp is below 68F, and you start the heater, you need to run it until the pool temperature exceeds 68F.

I have a Hayward heater and the only reference to temp is not to use under 40F without proper Temperature protection. What exactly does that mean? Sounds like it can be used without voiding warranty.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Wow @Green25 , I just checked mine and it is reading 39 degrees air temp and freeze protection finally turned off for the first time in 3 days. The sun is out and it is the warmest it has been in a few days, so I'm not too worried about the freeze protection turning off for a bit but I will be watching it tonight to make sure it comes back on when I need it. .

For yours, is that balmy 46 degrees also what your freeze guard is running off of? If so, you may want to do some adjustments so that it kicks on again tonight.

 

[JJ_Tex]

For those of your in Texas, ERCOT who manages most of our grid issued an order to conserve electricity to prevent rolling blackouts. Turn your thermostats down a bit, especially those of you who have electric heat.

 

[Green25]

@JJ_Tex My Aqualink has the air temp at 37 degrees, but I did have a brief moment of panic. The freezer alarm is just an inexpensive $20 thermometer, but it may be a little too close to the pump. I will likely move it to the opposite side of the pad later, but I’m thankful for a few hours of sunshine and warmer weather!

 

[nikolausp]

I'm in north Houston, and new pool owner, so this is my first time dealing with freezing temps. We have several days coming up with temp projected in the 20s, and some teens, and on Tuesday AM it's showing a low of 10 degrees.

I've read through this entire thread. I still don't really know what to do. I have 3 pumps: main pool pump, large waterfall pump, and weeping wall pump. I've read posts which mention "winterizing" waterfall pump, but I have no clue what that means. Should I just run all 3 pumps during the range of a few days where temps will be constantly below freezing? Or do I somehow need to figure out how to "winterize" certain things? I could get a large canvas and tarp combo for the equipment pad too, it sounds like that is supposed to help some... or is that overkill if I have all 3 pumps going?

Also, we have heated up our spa twice in the last couple weeks. Does this mean my heater is at risk, because there will be some water inside the heater somewhere? I've seen posts about "winterizing" the heater as well, but don't know what that entails. I'm assuming that even if I ran all 3 pumps 24/7 for a few days, there are still "Spa Mode" pipes that that solution won't effect. Do I turn the pool into Spa Mode once a day or so oro something to get the Spa heated up for a while, and then flip it back into Pool Mode?

I've currently been running exclusively in Service mode, because my automation isn't set up yet. I've been running the main pump non-stop at 2000 the last couple weeks.

 

[HeyEng]

It says if water temp is below 68F, and you start the heater, you need to run it until the pool temperature exceeds 68F.

Exactly. If you use it, make sure to get it above 68F.

I decided to go ahead and fire mine up since the water temp was at 32 and we aren't anywhere near the coldest we are going to get (and will stay below freezing for another 7'ish days). It is heating the water much faster than I would have expected (almost 3 degrees an hour) so will run it until I get it to 70 or so; that should keep it above freezing for a while. Shoot, maybe I will let it keep on going and do some hot tub action.

As an aside, we have a Hayward heater that is about 14 years old (we have lived here for 2 of those years) and it's been used extensively in the winter to "hot tub" the pool. Often, the ambient temps have been below 40. So far, we have had no issues with it...but we have always heated it past the 68 degrees. I am of the thought that using it is better than letting it sit for months at a time.

I am also very happy that we have quite a bit of sun today and as a result, the pool pad area has warmed to nearly 40 degrees.

On top of the storm we are getting tonight and into tomorrow (with 8-12" of snow estimates) they are now saying that another storm will roll in on Tuesday with one model showing upwards of 20" of snow. Man alive!! Enough already I say!!!

 

[JJ_Tex]

Hey @nikolausp

Usually winterizing involves draining the water from the pump and pipes that are above ground and at risk of freezing. Since your automation isnt setup, I would just run everything 24/7 until this passes.

On your spa mode, I guess you can manually go back and forth to keep those pipes from freezing but that would be old. I would not run your heater though.

Any chance you can get your automation setup so that freeze protection will kick in?

 

[nikolausp]

Hey @nikolausp

Usually winterizing involves draining the water from the pump and pipes that are above ground and at risk of freezing. Since your automation isnt setup, I would just run everything 24/7 until this passes.

On your spa mode, I guess you can manually go back and forth to keep those pipes from freezing but that would be old. I would not run your heater though.

Any chance you can get your automation setup so that freeze protection will kick in?

Why wouldn't you run the heater in Spa Mode? The builder has things set up so when I take it out of service mode and put it into Spa Mode, the heater automatically comes on. Perhaps if I'm supposed to avoid turning the heater on, do I leave it in Service Mode, and try and switch to Spa Mode while still in Service Mode? I think I tried that last week, and the heater did not automatically turn on, but I forget. The Pool School guy did mention that he had the Freeze Mode set to 42 degrees, which I thought was crazy high (but I don't know anything about Pools and Winter issues), and he doesn't have Pool Mode set up to run 24/7.... that's why I'm keeping it in Service Mode for now.

The pool builder's Pool School guy couldn't set up the phone app / automation thing, because for some reason my ScreenLogic box didn't have a certain wire that was needed to connect things, and he hasn't come back yet with the wire to get that going.

I guess I don't really understand what Freeze Protection is or why that would be needed if I am going to run all 3 pumps 24/7 for a few days. Also, is there some sort of suggestion on how high of RPM's to run the pumps?

 

[GDN]

I'm in north Houston, and new pool owner, so this is my first time dealing with freezing temps. We have several days coming up with temp projected in the 20s, and some teens, and on Tuesday AM it's showing a low of 10 degrees.

I've read through this entire thread. I still don't really know what to do. I have 3 pumps: main pool pump, large waterfall pump, and weeping wall pump. I've read posts which mention "winterizing" waterfall pump, but I have no clue what that means. Should I just run all 3 pumps during the range of a few days where temps will be constantly below freezing? Or do I somehow need to figure out how to "winterize" certain things? I could get a large canvas and tarp combo for the equipment pad too, it sounds like that is supposed to help some... or is that overkill if I have all 3 pumps going?

Also, we have heated up our spa twice in the last couple weeks. Does this mean my heater is at risk, because there will be some water inside the heater somewhere? I've seen posts about "winterizing" the heater as well, but don't know what that entails. I'm assuming that even if I ran all 3 pumps 24/7 for a few days, there are still "Spa Mode" pipes that that solution won't effect. Do I turn the pool into Spa Mode once a day or so oro something to get the Spa heated up for a while, and then flip it back into Pool Mode?

I've currently been running exclusively in Service mode, because my automation isn't set up yet. I've been running the main pump non-stop at 2000 the last couple weeks.

What automation do you have? Older Pentair is pretty easy to set up for freeze mode. It will handle moving the flow back and forth between pool and spa about every 30 minutes. It can be set up remotely, you don't have to be at the pad and this would likely be sufficient. If there is no hope of getting that running then you might just be able to set the 2 valves that control pool and spa about half way and it would get both of them at once, just don't let it drain your hot tub, keep more flow to the hot tub if you have overflow into the pool and let them go.

You have 2 other pumps you note. I think you are too late to think about winterizing. I think the key is to keep the water moving. Turn them on at a moderate flow and let them run.

That is basically my plan in Dallas. I've got a couple of tarps I may go cover my equipment as noted by others here, that could likely keep a lot of ground heat in. My equipment is also right next to the house and somewhat protected so that will help too.

 

[GDN]

Solid plan. . Other acceptable ways would be to bungee or duct-tape it all.

Now, we have all been exclusively talking about the pools but do you guys know how to start your car in the extreme cold ? You run out there screaming a 4 letter word and repeat the same word over and over with ‘**** ITS COLD!!’ Sit in the car rubbing your hands together and chanting until it summons the heat trolls to warm up the car.

Since you can see that most of us are most worried about losing power down in the South, my car is my backup plan to loss of power. First if we lose electricity, the pool is what it is, will open drains and be done with it, fix what breaks. Worrying won't help it.

However - the car is my place to sleep. We've have a Tesla Model 3. It's charged and in the garage, the battery will heat the car for 2 to 3 days. I can set up my phone as a hotspot and the car has Netflix and Youtube built in. We have a gas water heater. So the car is for sleeping and TV and then in to the house for a shower. If the outage were to last very many days I can always drive 5 miles down the road to a supercharger for a new charge.