Any other reason for foam?

[rednick]

I opened my pool to a green swamp as usual last Sunday. I’ve completed my SLAM, but still have some foaming. It’s minimal on normal operation, but gets really agitated with the Polaris running.

I have only used HTH liquid chlorine (I did supplement with 4 trichlor pucks last week), HTH DE media, and Leslies soda ash. Filter has been backwashed 3 times and pressure is within range.

I have a minor suction side leak. Higher iron levels (noted by green coloring in water and brownish stains last year) I believe being caused by my old filter, which is stainless steel that has some oxidation on the lid.

My only other thought is that the company that closed the pool may have used an algaecide, but could it last throughout the winter? Have had lots of pollen and tree/flower debris to manage, can it be result of environment?

Stats
FC 5.5
CC 0.5
PH 7.4
TA 50
CYA 20 (plan on increasing after solving other issues)

 

[Texas Splash]

Nothing from the levels jumps-out as a major factor, but I would offer the following:
- Did you pass all 3 SLAM criteria already? A 2-day SLAM Process is not impossible, but quite fast for a green swamp. That would be my #1 concern. Maybe there are still residual products trying to be eliminated by chlorine, and the SLAM FC level should still be maintained until all 3 criteria have passed.
- A TA of 50 is as low as you want to go. Not that it is directly related to the foaming, but you might pick it up to 60-70.
- Lack of CH (or very low) can apply to some pools and spas, but should not apply in this scenario,
- You've ruled-out the use of products that might cause foaming (i.e. splashless or scented bleaches).

So I would go back to the SLAM Process to ensure you followed it all the way through. It may just nee d bit more time.

 

[rednick]

Nothing from the levels jumps-out as a major factor, but I would offer the following:
- Did you pass all 3 SLAM criteria already? A 2-day SLAM Process is not impossible, but quite fast for a green swamp. That would be my #1 concern. Maybe there are still residual products trying to be eliminated by chlorine, and the SLAM FC level should still be maintained until all 3 criteria have passed.
- A TA of 50 is as low as you want to go. Not that it is directly related to the foaming, but you might pick it up to 60-70.
- Lack of CH (or very low) can apply to some pools and spas, but should not apply in this scenario,
- You've ruled-out the use of products that might cause foaming (i.e. splashless or scented bleaches).

So I would go back to the SLAM Process to ensure you followed it all the way through. It may just nee d bit more time.

Thanks for the reply. To clarify, last Sunday meaning 9 days ago. And noted on the TA. It was 40 before adding some soda ash. Will supplement with baking soda as needed. CH was about 20, but I don’t pay too much attention with a vinyl liner.

 

[Texas Splash]

To clarify, last Sunday meaning 9 days ago.

Perfect!

 

[rednick]

Guess my questions would be can algaecide stay suspended in water over the winter? Could pollen, flowers, leaves etc. add enough bad things to cause foaming?

I made the mistake (and you only make it once) of adding splashless bleach. It’s not as slick looking as that, but it got pretty sudsy in the skimmers.

 

[Texas Splash]

I would be surprised if an algaecide made it from Oct - Apr, but that's a question better answered by @Donldson. Do you recall which algaecide it was and how much was added? Also, was it applied at SLAM level, or do you recall the estimated FC level at closing? I'm also assuming you added some antifreeze? RV type correct? I can't imagine seasonal organic matter causing foaming.

 

[rednick]

I would be surprised if an algaecide made it from Oct - Apr, but that's a question better answered by @Donldson. Do you recall which algaecide it was and how much was added? Also, was it applied at SLAM level, or do you recall the estimated FC level at closing? I'm also assuming you added some antifreeze? RV type correct? I can't imagine seasonal organic matter causing foaming.

I had a local company close to pool, and honestly. I’m not sure which products they may have used. Antifreeze definitely, but not sure which brand/type unfortunately. Algaecide was just a guess eliminating other causes.

One other thought, I used a Danco silicone grease for the o-rings. Seemed to be safe for use in this application.

 

[Texas Splash]

I used a Danco silicone grease for the o-rings.

Should be okay. It contains silicone, but also has one ingredient I'm not familiar with (Dimethyl Polysiloxane). That's above my pay grade.

 

[Donldson]

Hi. Just reading over the thread and normally I'd go with antifreeze and algaecide, but if you've kept things at SLAM level for a week it is really unlikely either of these would still be in the water at an amount causing noticeable foaming. Without knowing what was added to the water before closing it's impossible to say for sure.

Right now if you're able to keep the FC without trouble then I'd concentrate on the leak. If air is being sucked in then it will cause even the slightest bit of residue to foam up. Once that's fixed there's a good chance the problem will clear itself up.

 

[borjis]

Low ch can cause it. You said your is only 20?
I would bump it to 50 and see if that helps. Yes it's vinyl and not necessary, but 20 is like nothing and could be the reason.

 

[rednick]

Hi. Just reading over the thread and normally I'd go with antifreeze and algaecide, but if you've kept things at SLAM level for a week it is really unlikely either of these would still be in the water at an amount causing noticeable foaming. Without knowing what was added to the water before closing it's impossible to say for sure.

Right now if you're able to keep the FC without trouble then I'd concentrate on the leak. If air is being sucked in then it will cause even the slightest bit of residue to foam up. Once that's fixed there's a good chance the problem will clear itself up.

The leak is on the pressure side, not suction side like I had originally typed. So I ran the Polaris for less than five minutes and the foam, which was minimal, has quadrupled. The bubbles on startup seemed to disappate, but foaming is there after taking it out.

I’m starting to wonder if it’s the Polaris itself that got something on it while in the garage?

 

[rednick]

Low ch can cause it. You said your is only 20?
I would bump it to 50 and see if that helps. Yes it's vinyl and not necessary, but 20 is like nothing and could be the reason.

So I retested because I saw the test was intervals of 25. It was two drops so I do have 50. Still low, and I have some calcium increased on hand from previous owner, so I’ll raise it up a bit.

 

[rednick]

I’ll scratch blaming the Polaris. Adding the calcium chloride and brushing also created the Milky Way

 

[rednick]

Got CH up to 150 and saw almost no change in foaming. Then, my FC which had been right around 5 for 2 days without bleach addition dropped to 0 last night

So back to SLAM for me. Added two gallons to bring FC up to 10 and topped off before bed. 9 hours later, FC down to 0 again . We did get a decent downpour last night as well. Brought back up to 10 and down to 6.5 in 3.5 hours. Obviously the foaming is me still fighting something even through the water is pretty clear.

So I measured my CYA, and it seems to have dropped to almost 0 (or I misread my first test which I thought was 20). Want to bring that up after my next backwash today. Question is if I need to backwash again, what do I do? I know we should not BW for week under normal circumstances.

 

[Texas Splash]

You have some very odd level changes happening, either chemically or by testing. So let's start at the beginning:
1. Confirm the CYA is indeed zero. If so, don't add any just jet.
2. Check to ensure your pH is still around 7.2 before starting the SLAM.
3. Increase the FC to "10" ppm and test again in 10 minutes to ensure it held between 5-10 ppm. If it did not, add more chlorine right away and repeat the 10 ppm test every 10 minutes to be absolutely sure the chlorine is showing signs of holding for 10 minutes.
4. Once you make it past that 10 min FC test process, then you can add stabilizer for a CYA goal of 30 ppm. At that same time you can also increase the FC to "12" and continue to monitor during the SLAM Process.

Monitor from there and let us know how it's going.

 

[rednick]

You have some very odd level changes happening, either chemically or by testing. So let's start at the beginning:
1. Confirm the CYA is indeed zero. If so, don't add any just jet.
2. Check to ensure your pH is still around 7.2 before starting the SLAM.
3. Increase the FC to "10" ppm and test again in 10 minutes to ensure it held between 5-10 ppm. If it did not, add more chlorine right away and repeat the 10 ppm test every 10 minutes to be absolutely sure the chlorine is showing signs of holding for 10 minutes.
4. Once you make it past that 10 min FC test process, then you can add stabilizer for a CYA goal of 30 ppm. At that same time you can also increase the FC to "12" and continue to monitor during the SLAM Process.

Monitor from there and let us know how it's going.

Took your advice. CYA is probably not 0, but right around 20.

pH I’m already slamming so came up 8.2. Let’s assume it’s right around 7.4-7.5 I’ve had recently.

10 minute test revealed I was about 2 FC lower than target. Maybe I’m not great at judging ounces. Added more.

I am happy to report that even with current levels, the foam has disappeared even with the Polaris running constantly since the morning

Water is getting even more clear than I originally thought. I’m a bit thrown off because I have some iron that causes a greenish tinge in the deep end and sometimes brown staining on skimmers and return jets, but I guess I was dealing with more algae than I originally thought. Getting close!

Appreciate all the help from everyone!

 

[Texas Splash]

Wow, quite a big change. Okay, so don't worry about pH testing anymore until after the SLAM. I would add just a little more CYA (about 10 ppm worth) so that you can be sure the CYA is at least 30. Then maintain the FC of 12. If you find later that the CYA is closer to 40 for some reason, simply keep the FC at 16. Either one should work and help get you across the finish line. Nice work!

 

[rednick]

Wow, quite a big change. Okay, so don't worry about pH testing anymore until after the SLAM. I would add just a little more CYA (about 10 ppm worth) so that you can be sure the CYA is at least 30. Then maintain the FC of 12. If you find later that the CYA is closer to 40 for some reason, simply keep the FC at 16. Either one should work and help get you across the finish line. Nice work!

One more question. I assume I should backwash prior to adding the CYA? Hoping that is my last BW for awhile.

 

[Texas Splash]

I should backwash prior to adding the CYA?

That shouldn't matter if you are adding stabilizer via the sock method. Once the stabilizer dissolves and you squeeze it all out, there are no restrictions. The backwash issue only applies to people who may have added stabilizer to the skimmer and it needs to sit in there to dissolve.

 

[rednick]

That shouldn't matter if you are adding stabilizer via the sock method. Once the stabilizer dissolves and you squeeze it all out, there are no restrictions. The backwash issue only applies to people who may have added stabilizer to the skimmer and it needs to sit in there to dissolve.

Perfect. Always a good day when you can learn a few things