Am I being to fussy?

[Limey]

1st sentence of the post. "concrete deck". Those pavers are not going anywhere.
Were the pavers placed directly onto the slab or floated with sand?

They were placed on a bed of sand.

I think some of the issue might be my choice of paver type. My neighbors have those smaller 6X3 chamfered edge type pavers on their pool deck and theirs is completely flat. Same substrate, sand over existing concrete pool deck. Then the 30mil pavers installed over it.

 

[Limey]

More importantly is that a schnauzer in your user photo?

Haha yes. That's my Cleo .

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Haha yes. That's my Cleo .

I’m a 2 schnauzer guy.. & will be schnauzer owner for life.. one day, when kids get bigger perhaps a giant schnauzer..

 

[Limey]

in Canada and probably other cold climates, when this is done and done to last, they use mortor. Same principal as thin set I suspect. Easier to level than sand but can't expect every tile to be perfect. Personally if the odd one is +/- 1/8", I'd find that reasonable. 3/16 or 1/4" is approaching too much for me.

I'm thinking by your name that measurements should be metric ;-) some more pics,the second image is a over next to coping, that's probably the worst one .

 

[Limey]

I’m a 2 schnauzer guy.. & will be schnauzer owner for life.. one day, when kids get bigger perhaps a giant schnauzer..

Once you go schnauzer you can't go back. For sure. I used to think that they were ugly little morsels until I owned one.

 

[Limey]

I talked to the installer a few moments ago. He said that there was a problem with the pavers themselves. And that if I didn't pay the remaining 50% he'd pull them all out.

So much for customer service.

 

[2girls4us]

I have flagstone pavers as well, traverstone places in the random pattern. The traverstone ones are 9”x9”, 9”x12”, and 9”x15” so larger than the more common small, brick-sized pavers. Mine lay nice and flat, with very little variance (not enough to really even feel underfoot). It sounds to me like it was a poor installation job, but they are trying to place the blame on the product rather than their workmanship.

 

[bmoreswim]

From the second to last picture, you can see that the one long skinny paver is at the correct height at the left side and in the middle. You can't expect an uneven paver to be at the right height at all points on the paver. Is there a problem with the paver? I don't think the paver would think he has a problem (joke). But if the pavers are supposed to be flat, then yes there is a problem with the pavers. Otherwise, your installation doesn't really look out of line to me - though not perfect either.

 

[Limey]

Can he just come over and tear it all out?
Apparently someone from the manufacturer is coming to take a look, that's what the installer told me.

 

[Dirk]

You still haven't said where you live, so I'll answer as if you're in California, which is all I know about anyway.

No, he can't tear it out, and you don't have to pay him yet. You are technically in the middle of what's called a "Good Faith Dispute." And until it's resolved, he can't tear it out, and you don't have to pay him. If it turns out he was in the right, you'll then need to pay him and you might be on the hook for interest, late fees etc. If you're in the right, he must fix it before he gets paid. He technically can't even demand payment, let alone collect it, until the resolution is complete.

If you think this is turning south, you should start your paper trail, stop talking to him, and communicate only in writing. But cooler heads might prevail, so no harm in a sit down with him and the manufacturer and see if you all can come to a reasonable resolution before you start firing cannons. It'd be prudent for you to have someone in your corner, literally, who can "witness" the conversation and help you keep track of what was said (and be able to testify to that should it go down that nasty road).

Good luck, be tough, be careful, be fair.

PS. That's all assuming your location has similar laws. Which is not guaranteed. CA is pro consumer in these types of matters...

 

[2girls4us]

I think they are in Florida. Flagstone Pavers is a concrete pavers manufacturer in Florida, and the pool is screened, which is quite common here.

 

[Limey]

You still haven't said where you live, so I'll answer as if you're in California, which is all I know about anyway.

No, he can't tear it out, and you don't have to pay him yet. You are technically in the middle of what's called a "Good Faith Dispute." And until it's resolved, he can't tear it out, and you don't have to pay him. If it turns out he was in the right, you'll then need to pay him and you might be on the hook for interest, late fees etc. If you're in the right, he must fix it before he gets paid. He technically can't even demand payment, let alone collect it, until the resolution is complete.

If you think this is turning south, you should start your paper trail, stop talking to him, and communicate only in writing. But cooler heads might prevail, so no harm in a sit down with him and the manufacturer and see if you all can come to a reasonable resolution before you start firing cannons. It'd be prudent for you to have someone in your corner, literally, who can "witness" the conversation and help you keep track of what was said (and be able to testify to that should it go down that nasty road).

Good luck, be tough, be careful, be fair.

PS. That's all assuming your location has similar laws. Which is not guaranteed. CA is pro consumer in these types of matters...

I'm in Florida. So how does one know who is in the right or wrong here? Is there an independent person I'd need to hire perhaps?

He did say someone is coming over today to look. I'd need their ID.

 

[uxbridgechris]

As a consumer sometimes we expect too much. Sometimes that is on the contractor for not communicating and sometimes on the customer for not listening. The only pics of this job I've seen are low angle shots with the low angle sun providing shade on some of the joints. I'd personally like to see a video of it from the perspective of someone walking around.

I could do a low angle shot of the ceramic tiles in my house and some areas would not look perfect.

 

[Dirk]

I'm in Florida. So how does one know who is in the right or wrong here? Is there an independent person I'd need to hire perhaps?

He did say someone is coming over today to look. I'd need their ID.

Start with the manufacturer. Yes, get his ID if you can. See what they say. Just keep in mind that the contractor is likely bringing him by for two reasons. To satisfy you, but also to get the manufacturer to pony up for the replacement if it comes to that. So they could both be good guys, and looking to do the right thing. Or they could both be looking for some way to avoid the expense of replacement. Or each might be on different ends of that spectrum. If you don't get satisfied from that meeting, then you very well might need to bring in an expert, as I mentioned previously.

In CA we have a state contractor board that gets involved in these types of matters. That might be something for you to check in your area. I'm engaging my board right now, for a similar dispute with a contractor, and the board is dragging their feet, so be prepared for that. I still haven't paid my contractor, though, and he can't do a thing about it until he and I sort this out (which is likely going to be in court, which is why I'm advising you take some reasonable steps now should you have to go down that road).

But my damages are much more clear cut. We still haven't really determined if your complaint is legit or not, in terms of what is reasonable to expect for that particular product. You'll know in a bit...

 

[Limey]

Start with the manufacturer. Yes, get his ID if you can. See what they say. Just keep in mind that the contractor is likely bringing him by for two reasons. To satisfy you, but also to get the manufacturer to pony up for the replacement if it comes to that. So they could both be good guys, and looking to do the right thing. Or they could both be looking for some way to avoid the expense of replacement. Or each might be on different ends of that spectrum. If you don't get satisfied from that meeting, then you very well might need to bring in an expert, as I mentioned previously.

In CA we have a state contractor board that gets involved in these types of matters. That might be something for you to check in your area. I'm engaging my board right now, for a similar dispute with a contractor, and the board is dragging their feet, so be prepared for that. I still haven't paid my contractor, though, and he can't do a thing about it until he and I sort this out (which is likely going to be in court, which is why I'm advising you take some reasonable steps now should you have to go down that road).

But my damages are much more clear cut. We still haven't really determined if your complaint is legit or not, in terms of what is reasonable to expect for that particular product. You'll know in a bit...

Thanks for your input. If two independent contractors told me my pavers are ok, then I'd be more than happy to move on and close this matter. The contractor turning on me like that wasn't a nice experience for me. I always try my best to be polite and respectful towards others.

I measured of the pavers, indeed there appears to be some minor thickness variances, approx 2-3 mil on some pavers. The contractor mentioned after install and after me bringing it up about leveling that he thought one pallet of the smaller pavers were thinner. But no explanation as to why he carried out the installation.

 

[Dirk]

Give him the benefit of the doubt? Caught him before his coffee? We all go off sometimes. Sounds like he's doing what he should at this point. Keep an open mind. But...

Was it Ronnie who said? "Trust, but verify!!"

 

[jimmythegreek]

you can def see some unevenness in the one photo of the actual paver. This is common, they are not perfect, it is a manufactured product. now some guys who know someone is picky may choose to not install those pavers, but its time consuming and will cost more, often they dont want to write up a change order they want to follow the contract which is usually OK. Not to sound harsh, but its a really nice job, better than what I usually see posted and they look good too. Only a chamfered edge product will be perfectly feeling to bare feet, I would maybe offer to pay some extra labor (few hundred tops) and see if he will swap out the couple that bother you. sounds like hes frustrated too if that was his response to you which is out of line anyway, I didnt catch the details but is he paid from PB or are you dealing w him directly?

 

[Limey]

you can def see some unevenness in the one photo of the actual paver. This is common, they are not perfect, it is a manufactured product. now some guys who know someone is picky may choose to not install those pavers, but its time consuming and will cost more, often they dont want to write up a change order they want to follow the contract which is usually OK. Not to sound harsh, but its a really nice job, better than what I usually see posted and they look good too. Only a chamfered edge product will be perfectly feeling to bare feet, I would maybe offer to pay some extra labor (few hundred tops) and see if he will swap out the couple that bother you. sounds like hes frustrated too if that was his response to you which is out of line anyway, I didnt catch the details but is he paid from PB or are you dealing w him directly?

I thought so, in respect of your chamfered edge paving comment. Thanks.


Edit . I'm dealing with him directly. Unsure what PB means

 

[Dirk]

you can def see some unevenness in the one photo of the actual paver. This is common, they are not perfect, it is a manufactured product. now some guys who know someone is picky may choose to not install those pavers, but its time consuming and will cost more, often they dont want to write up a change order they want to follow the contract which is usually OK. Not to sound harsh, but its a really nice job, better than what I usually see posted and they look good too. Only a chamfered edge product will be perfectly feeling to bare feet, I would maybe offer to pay some extra labor (few hundred tops) and see if he will swap out the couple that bother you. sounds like hes frustrated too if that was his response to you which is out of line anyway, I didnt catch the details but is he paid from PB or are you dealing w him directly?

I'm staying out of the "is it or isn't it" part of this conversation. Hard to tell from the pic's. Looks like pavers to me, but ya really have to be there, right? It's not travertine after all. But the OP wants what the OP wants, and that's fair. As you suggest, they just might have to pay a little extra for that...

 

[riley00dog]

He should never have lay them imo if he knew there was a problem with the pavers. Our tilers rejected half a crate of pavers. Once they opened them they called to demand they be replaced immediately and they were, that same afternoon. That sounds like a horrible conversation to have with your tiler and very rude of him. I would try talking to him again and see if there is a solution. The grinding I mentioned might be an option. If he’s not open to working towards a solution, I’m not sure what you should do. Not nice when trades don’t care to make the customer happy. I really feel for you.