Alternative Pool Automation and Sensor/Chemical Control and Integration

MyAZPool

Gold Supporter
Jul 3, 2018
1,768
Arizona
Pool Size
20500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
@MyAZPool how much of an increase in Orp do you see at night? I know it’s expected since no UV to breakdown the chlorine. Just curious to know how much of a Swing.
@joboo7777
My ORP readings do show some increase at night but it's not very much.
Here is a 48 hour snapshot of my ORP readings. You can see an average of about 40-50 or so difference between night and day. Those occasional peaks that you see correlate to pump starts when fresh pool water enters the sensor bypass manifold.
2021-01-16_20-47-20.jpg

I should note that I am NOT relying on ORP readings for the determination of the sanitation effectiveness of my pool at this time, due to my current CYA levels of 70ppm. Just observing and learning at this point.
r.
 

joboo7777

Bronze Supporter
Aug 8, 2020
49
McKinney, TX
Pool Size
15568
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Yup understood. I as well will not solely rely on it to determine santizarion effectiveness. Although I do want to dose based on it and test accordingly to confirm. I don’t use salt so my CYA is much lower (at 35ppm).
 
  • Like
Reactions: MyAZPool

jonpcar

Bronze Supporter
Jun 1, 2016
560
Gilbert, AZ
I should note that I am NOT relying on ORP readings for the determination of the sanitation effectiveness of my pool at this time, due to my current CYA levels of 70ppm. Just observing and learning at this point.

Ron, I know this is not the thread where you want to discuss ORP in detail, but hoping I can get my 2 cents in during your “observations” since you are so far ahead my non-existent ORP implementation. Our systems use different chlorinating methods (mine: Stenner pump, yours: SWG). I am considering SWG in the future but for now am working on other things.

I have run a number of chlorination tests in my pool and have found that higher CYA levels (70-80) help significantly in maintaining my FC levels and minimizing my chlorine addition requirements during the summer...this is comparable to CYA levels recommended for SWG users. I know this is pushing the TFP recommendations for CYA in a non-SWG pool, but I am pretty comfortable with my chems & system (even for weeks at a time) unless there is a catastrophe...in particular a failure of a Stenner pump tube which I currently cannot detect. In your case, an equivalent could be an unexpected failure of your SWG to produce chlorine (I don’t know it that is possible or not, or whether you can already automatically detect such a failure).

In any case, I was hoping at some future point to investigate ORP at higher CYA levels (like yours currently) to see if it was possible to easily detect very low (or zero) FC levels, signaling a potentially huge problem with the chlorinating system (even with high CYA levels). I know the ultimate goal is fine control of FC using ORP, which has been problematic for many...I’m just wondering if this catastrophic failure detection might be a first step, haha.

Anyway, like I said, if/when you start your ORP thread, I’ll be watching carefully.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MyAZPool

Katodude

Silver Supporter
Aug 22, 2017
1,246
West Palm Beach/Florida
I will definitely be watching the ORP discussion, but I am not holding out a lot of hope. I really think long term our best bet will be a true FC probe. They are expensive now but have been coming down in price. I think you can get one now for about $1000. When they drop down to about $500 I will probably pull the trigger.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MyAZPool

MyAZPool

Gold Supporter
Jul 3, 2018
1,768
Arizona
Pool Size
20500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
@jonpcar
Ron, I know this is not the thread where you want to discuss ORP in detail, but hoping I can get my 2 cents in during your “observations” since you are so far ahead my non-existent ORP implementation. Our systems use different chlorinating methods (mine: Stenner pump, yours: SWG). I am considering SWG in the future but for now am working on other things.

I have run a number of chlorination tests in my pool and have found that higher CYA levels (70-80) help significantly in maintaining my FC levels and minimizing my chlorine addition requirements during the summer...this is comparable to CYA levels recommended for SWG users. I know this is pushing the TFP recommendations for CYA in a non-SWG pool, but I am pretty comfortable with my chems & system (even for weeks at a time) unless there is a catastrophe...in particular a failure of a Stenner pump tube which I currently cannot detect. In your case, an equivalent could be an unexpected failure of your SWG to produce chlorine (I don’t know it that is possible or not, or whether you can already automatically detect such a failure).

In any case, I was hoping at some future point to investigate ORP at higher CYA levels (like yours currently) to see if it was possible to easily detect very low (or zero) FC levels, signaling a potentially huge problem with the chlorinating system (even with high CYA levels). I know the ultimate goal is fine control of FC using ORP, which has been problematic for many...I’m just wondering if this catastrophic failure detection might be a first step, haha.

Anyway, like I said, if/when you start your ORP thread, I’ll be watching carefully.
Agree. With the SWG, I'm hoping to be able to setup alert notifications through Grafana that will notify me if SWG output parameters are not being met. I'm looking forward to seeing how SWG output gets tied to ORP values. The developers are working on it now. More to follow on that front. I know one thing for sure. I will need to get CYA down far enough to allow ORP values to be reliable but at the same time high enough to maintain proper chlorine levels. There will certainly be some experimentation but hey, what better way for me to stay busy. :p

I think dosing with liquid chlorine, that makes a lot of sense using ORP to trigger an alert to a possible stenner pump or other failure.
r.

@Katodude
will definitely be watching the ORP discussion, but I am not holding out a lot of hope. I really think long term our best bet will be a true FC probe. They are expensive now but have been coming down in price. I think you can get one now for about $1000. When they drop down to about $500 I will probably pull the trigger.
I couldn't agree more regarding a amperometric chlorine sensor vs an ORP sensor. I happened to mention in my base document, that if Atlas or whoever develops a "reliable" Amperometric Chlorine Sensor and if it is NOT cost-prohibitive, then “I’m in." I also think around $500.00 would be about the figure I would expect to make the swap from ORP to the ACS. I got the feeling from talking with one of the dudes at Atlas, that ACS development was in the works. I'm taking a "wait and see" approach on that one.
Thanks...
r.
p.s. here is a link to another thread regarding an amperometric chlorine sensor.
 

joboo7777

Bronze Supporter
Aug 8, 2020
49
McKinney, TX
Pool Size
15568
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Water Guru makes a product that measures FC. Its not a probe, but uses some sort of Strip/pad cartridge to measure FC then translate to a digital reading. Obviously not the same as a probe but I might actually buy it to see how accurate it is. Even if its close (~1ppm) It might be a good backup to ensure proper FC levels are being achieved while using ORP to dispense Chlorine.
 

joboo7777

Bronze Supporter
Aug 8, 2020
49
McKinney, TX
Pool Size
15568
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Search the WaterGuru on the forum. Some members have tried it.

Yea, I’ve seen a few posts and it looks like it’s been mixed. I have a few methods to verify the test results so I’m going to give it a go just because I’m stubborn..;)