Algaecide use?

[Texaspops]

So I'm still not quite clear... are you by chance a scientist?

Based on your responses here, I would guess that you are not

Then the opposition to you offering advice based entirely upon anecdotal evidence should be pretty obvious, yes? You seem to be holding everyone else to a higher standard than you expect to be held to, why is that?

I was relating my own experience which is by definition anecdotal. You responded, and started all this back and forth, with the comment about rapid destruction of quat by chlorine which was providing wider information for which there should have been verification. I asked for it because I was genuinely interested and wanted to know more, and was met with a torrent of further abuse. (but still no verification provided, only additional ad hominem comments.

What you do with your water is not really of much concern to any of us.

So why are people so upset and trying to persuade me otherwise?

What advice you offer on TFP, and the foundation of that advice, is of concern to all of us.

I seriously doubt that my input about use of monthly dosage amounts of quat algaecide as a supplement to the usual TFP methodology would be detrimental to the quality of anyone's pool. I am not sure that that point is understood here.

 

[Texaspops]

2 oz of anything is not much at all and you might not be getting any benefit or detriment from it.

It is the recommended monthly maintenance dose of the concentrated liquid product for my size pool.

Now I won't ever go back to what I was once comfortable with and will stick with the chemistry-driven TFP way.

Which is what I do as my basis. People here don't seem to understand that. I mentioned algaecide and it was as though I had mentioned kryptonite! I was never advocating its sole use.

 

[Newdude]

I mentioned algaecide and it was as though I had mentioned kryptonite! I was never advocating its sole use.

As a teaching forum, we struggle with newb after newb after newb coming in grasping at straws looking for validation that the way that brought them here is the best way.

They will pick and choose snippets while ignoring the bulk of it that explained it proper. It's a very slippery slope for us when posts are read thousands of times in the future, or tens of thousands of times.

It's not so much what you said, but how it will be twisted by lurkers we never get to meet. It fluctuates of course but members are outnumbered by guests at any moment at least 10:1. Right this second it's 20:1

 

[PoolStored]

TFP is built to help a VERY wide audience (capability, knowledge, location, pool type etc.) maintain a trouble free pool.

As a default position, we know that a properly chlorinated pool does not need algaecide to be algae and bacteria free. Additionally, the many of algaecides contain copper, silver, sulfates and/or sodium bromide. The problems that come from algaecide use is vast...staining, green hair, damage to concrete and metals, and in the case of sodium bromide, it turns the pool into a bromine pool. The shear number of threads we deal with because people have used algaecides, and now have water that is green, stains, concrete problems, or they need to drain and refill because they converted their chlorine pool to a bromine pool, leads us to know...if you avoid the cause of the problem in the first place, we eliminate the issues.

As a result, we don't recommend algaecides as a normal practice, because it is not necessary, and not Trouble Free.

Recommended Pool Chemicals

Which should I buy? TFP's recommended pool chemicals are cheap, easy, and won't unbalance your pool water.

www.troublefreepool.com

Non-Recommended Pool Chemicals

These pool chemicals should not be added to your pool. Save your money and frustration and avoid these chemicals!

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Texaspops]

Algecides *inhibit* algae growth. They can't stop the exponential runaway train, and that's a huge difference. If it killed active blooms, all anyone with a swamp would need was algecide.

As a preventative measure for the off season, its assumed that the PQ outlives the FC. But FC breaks down PQ and vice versa leaving you with less of each, ironically making you need the PQ once the FC is then too low. During the season, it's counterproductive IMO.

When closing early, it's a calculated risk that probably leans towards the PQ being more helpful than harmful. But if you close late enough, you'd have enough FC to make it to cold water for the off season if you skipped the PQ.

FWIW, I've done it both ways and since I learned how to make it through the off season with enough FC, I skip it. If you're still on team PQ, that's fine too.

Thank you for a sensible response. Except algaecides do kill algae, by various methods, which of course stops their growth!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0045653511010654

 

[PoolStored]

Thank you for a sensible response. Except algaecides do kill algae, by various methods, which of course stops their growth!
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0045653511010654

Chlorella pyrenoidosa and Scenedesmus quadricauda are not commonly found in pools.

Green algae are in the Chlorophyta division of the plant (Viridiplantae) kingdom. They contain green chlorophyll a and b. A typical common green algae found in pools is the genus Oocystis.

Yellow/mustard algae aka yellow-green in the class Xanthophyceae in the kingdom Chromalveolata. They contain chlorophyll a and c, but not b. A typical yellow-green algae found in pools is Pleurochloris pyrenoidosa.

Black algae isn't actually algae but is in the phylum Cyanobacteria in the domain of bacteria so do not have nuclei. It is more commonly called blue-green algae, but the type found in pools usually looks black until swiped on white paper at which point it looks dark green. They usually contain phycocyanin instead of chlorophyll for photosynthesis. A typical black algae found in pools is in the family Phormidiaceae.

The final issue WRT algaecides and TFP...is the foundation of TFP - Self-testing of your pool water. (What is TFPC?)

• Self-management of your pool environment.
• Self-testing of your pool water.
• A willingness to learn about pool care.

The result of using all our recommended chemicals can be tested. FC, CC, pH, TA, CH, CYA, Salt and Borates. There is no way to test the algaestatic properties of algaecides in pool water (that is trouble free and widely available to the average pool owner).

 

[Newdude]

Except algaecides do kill algae, by various methods, which of course stops their growth!

I couldn't have said it better than your link. Thanks.

'Algal toxicity tests are widely applied to assess the effects of hazardous substances in waters. However, many of these tests have been performed with a single species in the laboratory without realistic ecological circumstances (Qian et al., 2008). Because responses to toxicants could differ among algal species by 2–3 orders of magnitude, toxicity levels could not simply be extrapolated from one species to others or to natural assemblages (Ma et al., 2004). Thus, single-species laboratory studies may be inadequate for predicting the effects of chemicals on ecological communities.'


*then we'd have to cross reference the watered down chemicals the pool store is hawking for comparison, once we adapted the research for real world pool situations.

 

[Texaspops]

I couldn't have said it better than your link. Thanks.

'Algal toxicity tests are widely applied to assess the effects of hazardous substances in waters. However, many of these tests have been performed with a single species in the laboratory without realistic ecological circumstances (Qian et al., 2008). Because responses to toxicants could differ among algal species by 2–3 orders of magnitude, toxicity levels could not simply be extrapolated from one species to others or to natural assemblages (Ma et al., 2004). Thus, single-species laboratory studies may be inadequate for predicting the effects of chemicals on ecological communities.'


*then we'd have to cross reference the watered down chemicals the pool store is hawking for comparison, once we adapted the research for real world pool situations.

The broad statement, "algaecides kill algae" is valid which was my point. The rate of killing and differences between species which is correctly pointed out in the article is irrelevant.

 

[Donldson]

 

[Texaspops]

This is supposed to be helpful to the broader objectives of TFP?

 

[dereksanders]

Just an observation. Asking if a gif is helpful to the broader objectives of TFP when espousing Algaecide use in direct contravention of TFP protocols is rather ironic.

 

[AUSpool]

15 years with TFP, no algacide, no flocculants or clarifiers and no algae blooms. Just chlorine and regular testing. How much would that unnecessary maintenance dose have cost me over 15 years? A maintenance dose of an algacide is a FB thing, may have some benefit in a poorly managed pool but TFP is not into poorly managed pools. Do it right and you just don’t need it.