My spa has an air switch button for remote start-stop. When pushed, it interrupts one leg of the 240V serving the pump. Push again and it starts. Has worked well for many years for a conventional motor. But now I've installed a new B&D variable speed pump/motor and I wonder if there's an issue with interrupting just one leg of the two legs that serve the variable-speed motor. Any knowledge on that subject?
Air switch for variable speed pump?
- Thread starter kotpool
- Start date
A Black and Decker (Circupool, Calimar) VSP doesn't work with an "on/off" switch, whether it breaks one or both legs. There is an automation adapter that could be made to work the way you want. Would take a bit of creative wiring.
Automation-Capable Variable Speed Pump Adapter
This keypad replaces the original keypad for a Blue Torrent Cyclone, Sunnora, or BLACK+DECKER Inground Variable Speed pool pumps. It provides all the same functionality as the original keypad, but also includes the capability for relay-triggered control to allow virtually any automation system...
poolpartstogo.com
Thank you. I thought maybe it's a code thing that there be a shut-off button at the spa for emergencies (even for residential). I acknowledge that normal control for the B&D VSP is by the on-board keypad. Power failure, of course, will shut both legs of the 240VAC. I have a request in to B&D asking if occasionally interrupting one leg of the 240VAC supply will damage the motor or controls. Will report back.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,414
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
It is against code to shutoff a 240V device with one leg. Both legs must be switched on or off.
The reason is someone can begin working on the pump assuming there is no power to it since it is not running while in fact one leg is hot. That can injure or kill a person.
Yes, that makes sense. Attached is the button and air switch installed in 1988 by licensed electrician and permitted/inspected/allowed. That was to interrupt one leg of a one-speed 240VAC motor. So I'm just wondering if I can use this same switch without damaging the VSP. It's a convenient temporary switch during vacuuming.
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- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,414
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
The NEC was very different in 1988 then now.
If a licensed electrician worked on your pump he would not hookup the air switch to one leg.
If a licensed electrician worked on your pump he would not hookup the air switch to one leg.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,414
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
To connect the air switch to a 240V pump following code you need to do it through a 240V Double Pole contactor with a 120V coil.
The air switch energizes the relay which closes the circuit for both 240V legs.
Place the contactor in an appropriate electrical box.
The air switch energizes the relay which closes the circuit for both 240V legs.
Place the contactor in an appropriate electrical box.
- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,382
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
You may be able to power the pump back on with the switch, but won't you'll still have to turn it on manually to a run setting at control panel?
I don't know. As a test, I might shut off the circuit breaker while the pump is running and then turn on the circuit breaker after a minute to see if the pump starts on its own, or if I have to press the start button. But I'll wait for B&D replay first.
Due to the nature of the electronics, if you shut power off to the VSP it usually takes a minute of so before it can be powered on. You can't do it quickly, it won't start. If you have a GFCI breaker, switching one leg could easily cause the breaker to nuisance trip as it senses an unbalanced load.
Were you the owner at the time?
Does the pump come with an external input control option?
You can get a 240 volt version of the air switch if you want.
What are you trying to accomplish?
What are you trying to accomplish?
Here's my question to B&D: "My spa has an air switch button for remote start-stop. When pushed, it interrupts one leg of the 240V serving the pump motor. Push again and it starts the pump motor. It has worked well for many years for a conventional 240V motor. But now I've installed a new B&D variable speed 2HP pump/motor. Will interrupting just one leg of the two legs that serve the B&D VS motor harm the controls or the motor?" Here's the B&D reply: "It can harm the pump and the pump will not always start up automatically just from being given power. Having it's power cut trigger's an E-08 error code which may need to be cleared for it to run. If you could modify the spa switch to instead turn on/off a low voltage signal, you could use it with the automation adapter so that the pump is powered 24/7 but will be triggered to run only when the spa switch tells it to."
A few days ago we had a power failure for a few hours. I was away but when I got home the pump was running without my needing to press any buttons. The clock and programming were correct after the power fail.
Yes I was the owner at time of installation in 1988. The pool contractor got permits and hired the subs and I have the signed-off inspection card, including electric. The B&D VS pump does not come with an external input control but I see that an automation adapter can be added, as B&D describes above ($99.99).
- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,382
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
This should be the same automation interface as the one sold under the Black & Decker name. Not sure if you're interested in going this route, but this is a less expensive option than B$D.
CaliMar® Pump Interface Board | CMARVSPIB
Pool Supply Unlimited has some of the best prices when shopping for CaliMar® Pump Interface Board | CMARVSPIB
www.poolsupplyunlimited.com
- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,382
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
I'd have to wrap my head around how to do it, but I know it can be done. This Power Relay Module should work as a relay to open/close the 5 volt COM to the desired position on the automation interface. It would take the 120 volt signal from the air switch and covert it into a dry relay contact to be connected to the automation module. The remaining speeds could be controlled by a simple Wifi relay like the Sonoff 4CH Pro R3.
If none of that makes any sense, it may not be for you. Let me know if I can help you understand.
- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,382
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Your other option is to use the automation interface to control the pump via phone app (compatible with Alexa, Google Home, Smart Things etc). @FloridaGary made it work...
www.troublefreepool.com
Sonoff Pool Automation Help Needed
www.troublefreepool.com
Thank you very much , Rancho. I will consider when I have more time. Not a high priority right now.