Air in Pump Basket

[gitar]

Hi. New to the forum so any help is appreciated! Stats: 16x32 Vinyl In ground pool, 28,000G, Hayward S160 sand filter and Hayward Super Pump. We had the vinyl liner and skimmer replaced last August and then shut down the pool after. When they replaced the liner, they told us we didn't need the main drain so they cemented over it and put in the new liner. That leaves us with 1 skimmer in the pool and 3 return jets, 1 in the deep end and 2 in the shallow end. Prior to opening this year, I replaced the spider gasket in the vari flo valve and the cover gasket in the pump basket, seating both properly and using Jacks lube. The two drain holes on the pump basket are tight and not leaking. When I start the pump after topping up the basket and closing the lid, I get a continuous mix of water and air. The water level in the pool is high enough but if I press down on the weir in the skimmer and the water level in the skimmer basket increases, I get less of a vortex effect in the skimmer and pump baskets. The only thing I have not done is closed the valve to the main drain? I have attached photo. I dont know which pipe coming out of the ground is to the old bottom drain so if someone can tell me that would be a help. Thanks in advance.

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! I suppose it's possible that with that gate valve open, pulling from both lines, you could be pulling air from the drain line even though they closed it in the pool. I would "hope"that if you close that valve, essentially shutting-off the line farthest from the pump, it's to the drain. Hopefully the line closest is for the skimmer. I guess you'll find out when you close it.

 

[DJFaninTN]

those Hayward gaskets on the pump basket are funky sometimes. I found if I screw those nobs too tight it can create an air bubble in my basket. I have to back them off ever so slightly. make sure the gasket is facing the correct direction as well. it can make a difference. YMMV

 

[gitar]

Welcome to TFP! I suppose it's possible that with that gate valve open, pulling from both lines, you could be pulling air from the drain line even though they closed it in the pool. I would "hope"that if you close that valve, essentially shutting-off the line farthest from the pump, it's to the drain. Hopefully the line closest is for the skimmer. I guess you'll find out when you close it.

Thanks. Really don't want to disturb that valve unless I am sure it is to the bottom drain. It hasn't been touched in years and

those Hayward gaskets on the pump basket are funky sometimes. I found if I screw those nobs too tight it can create an air bubble in my basket. I have to back them off ever so slightly. make sure the gasket is facing the correct direction as well. it can make a difference. YMMV
[/QUOTE
Thanks for the idea. I assume the correct seating is with the channel side up facing toward the lid?

 

[gitar]

Okay...found part of my problem today with the air in the housing. After taking a really close look at the housing cover under bright light, I found a stress fracture that ran from the hinge and into the cover itself. I replaced it with a new Hayward cover and there is still air in the basket but not nearly as bad as before. I am going to replace the o rings on the drain plugs and replace the gasket cover again.

 

[Texas Splash]

Great catch!

 

[gitar]

Thanks Splash. Found the other part of my air in the basket today. After using some dish detergent soap and putting the bubble in my hand, I held my hand next to several areas of the pump housing. At the drain plug on
the front of the basket it started to suck in the bubbles from my hand. This was odd cause I had no leak. When I took the drain plug out and looked at it closely, the gasket had very tiny cracks along the outside edge of one part of the gasket. I went to the pool store and got a new drain plug and gasket and installed with some lube. Bingo...no more are in basket at all. Good lesson here that sometimes your problems are the small things and hardly noticeable to the eye...a stress crack in the lid and a brittle gasket. Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[Texas Splash]

Awesome!

 

[gitar]

Background
In ground 16x32 liner and skimmer replaced last year. Main drain covered and closed.
Opened this year and had air in the Hayward Super pump basket and air in water to the return jets.
Found a crack in the lid. Replaced with a Hayward lid. Air leak a little better
Replaced pump drain plugs and o rings. didn't help.
Replaced pump lid gasket with a Hayward gasket using Jacks lube. Good seal and pops when I open it but still have air.
My pool water has been very clear with the exception of some small algae areas which brush off.

Now: New problems

1. We went to use our manual vacuum hose to vacuum the pool. We had used it to open the pool and had no problem.
Now when we attach the vac to the skimmer opening, the pressure at the pump gradually drops from 12 to 10 to 8 to 4 and
pretty soon there is no water coming into the pump basket at all and I have to shut the pump down so I don't burn it up.
I even pressure tested the vac hose for leaks and it was tight.
2. Whenever I shut the pump and filter off at the end of the day, I get this gurgling sound in the sand filter housing and when
I look in the pump basket it appears that water is rushing out from the Sand filter to pump hose connection and into the
pump housing and then back into the suction line that leads back to the skimmer.
3. My pressure gauge on the filter never rises past 10-12 when earlier this season during opening it would climb as we cleaned the pool.

Ideas:
1. The main drain cemented over when they replaced the liner but the plumbing to the pump remains.
2. The pool was filthy when we opened with lots of algae and leaves. We hose vacd the leaves out with a net and only used the pool
vac to vacuum pool and algae to waste.
3. Our pump motor is the same size 1hp that we had last year but now only has one source of water..the skimmer.
Is this causing cavitation?

At my whits end on this one after maintaining the pool for the last 20 years. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[ajw22]

Having only one water source from your skimmer is causing you the vacuuming problems. The pump cannot get enough water through the vacuum hose. Given your situation you should give up on a suction vacuum and get a robot cleaner.

It also sounds like you have an air leak in your plumbing and your system does not hold pressure when you turn off the pump which allows air to push the water out the suction line. This air leak can be anywhere from your pump through to your returns.

Post pics of your equipment and plumbing and let us see what you have.

 

[gitar]

ajw22...I have attached some photos. The manual vacuum was working fine when we opened the pool this year. We vacuumed both to waste and then the filter about 5 diffferent times. The filter pressure would climb from 12 to 20 and I would backwash. Why would it all of a sudden
stop working when a month ago it seemed fine?

 

[ajw22]

With all of those worm clamps it is impossible to say where an air leakage may be. You have many unnecessary joints. There are reasons modern pools use glued rigid schedule 40 PVC.

I would replumb your equipment pad with all glued rigid PVC and have one connection to each of the black pipes going into the ground.

 

[Texas Splash]

I agree it's probably time to look ahead and consider re-doing the plumbing lines at the equipment pad with PVC. Of course that suction line going into the ground back to the skimmer will be interesting because it may be a black hose all the way to the skimmer. So that may be one unavoidable place where you have a connection. But since the vacuum seemed to work fire before, are you sure you haven't gotten a partial blockage by sucking-up something? You might consider using a bladder device like a Drain King or the one shown below to push water backward from the pump inlet back to the skimmer just to make sure.

 

[1Sammy]

WOW, come on guys........ There is NOTHING WRONG with a vacuum hose going direct to the skimmer. OP even told ya he did this before and it worked. I use systems like that every week. Once you find the problem it will work again. Also Nothing wrong with black poly and hose clamps. I think as Splash said that you possibly have your vac hose plugged.

 

[gitar]

HI All. This air problem in the pump basket just keeps getting more bizarre. I still have air in the basket despite replacing the pump plugs, o rings, pump lid, pump basket gasket (used Hayward brand). The MPV set to filter was giving 10psi as a reading but despite filtering 4-6 hrs a day for the last two weeks the gauge never moved off 10psi as it did last year when the filter got dirty. I decided to replace the gauge with the good metal oil filled gauge recommended in the forum. Put it on yesterday and it was reading steady at about 9 psi. I decided to see if using the different filter settings would produce different PSI under use. When I set the filter to backwash, pressure was steady at 12-14 psi. At waste the same thing, 12-14 psi. When I set it to recirculate the gauge swung wildly between 0 and 9 never staying at either psi very long. Now when I set it back to filter on the MPV, I am getting about 7psi and more psi swings than I had before I attempted any of this. Do I have some obstruction in the flow out of the pump to the MPV? Could a blown spider gasket in the MPV cause this? All ideas are welcome. I relaize I still need to replace the pad plumbing with PVC but thats another post entirely. Thanks in advance.

 

[Texas Splash]

How well or consistant is the water flowing through the pump? Is it pumping steady without surges? On recirculate, there should be no water or pressure to the filter as it is completely bypassed.

 

[gitar]

Splash..there is a lot of air in the basket so hard to tell about the surges. When the pump primes on the filter setting, the water flow from the skimmer looks strong without interruption and very little air then about two minutes later the basket starts to get air and the psi drops. The fact that recirculate is causing pressure spikes on the gauge...is the spider gasket shot?

 

[Texas Splash]

The fact that recirculate is causing pressure spikes on the gauge...is the spider gasket shot?

Maybe, although I would also think that you would see other indications of a bad gasket such as water flowing out to WASTE when in other settings. If you do open it up to inspect, you might also take note of other parts that may need to be replaced such a handle tension spring, shaft O-ring, or anything else in there that might affect the MPV's ability to perform correctly.

 

[gitar]

I think I have found the source of my suction side pressure leak but would like some confirmation here. Nice dry day here and the equipment pad was dry from sitting all night. I filled the basket up and turned on the pump and waited. After about 5 minutes, the water that you see in the photos began to show up. I think I either have a cracked pump housing or a leak somewhere in the impeller seals or housing gasket. There are no visible leaks or cracks within the pump basket itself. I have some questions:

1. Can you identify from the photos if this is the housing or the seals?

2. The motor is newer than the housing and was replaced about 5 years ago. Motor is still strong..should I stay with this Hayward setup if the housing is cracked or move on?

3. As stated above, I replaced the motor but have never had to do seals, impellers etc. Is this something someone fairly handy can do or is time to call a pro?

4. If it is the seals, is there a kit or something that Hayward sells to repair this? The pump model is SP2607X10.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Texas Splash]

Yes, many pool owners do pump repairs on their own. Just takes a little time and advanced thought to ensure you have everything ready. On THIS PAGE you can see everything broken down. There are a couple potential leak spots in a pump area, for that reason they make "Go-Kits" like the one linked below. You might want to discuss this with someone first though like InyoPools to ensure you are getting all the right parts. Some shaft seals are of better quality than others, so that' s something to ask also.

Hayward Super Pump Gasket Rebuild Kit

Hayward Super Pump Rebuild Seal Kit, SPX1600S. Includes: Housing Gasket, Diffuser O-Ring/Gasket, Lid O-Ring/Gasket & Pump Seal. SPX1600T, SPX1600R, SPX1600S.

www.poolzoom.com