You did see my TA was 140 ppm? You're saying that's not a real problem?
aeration vs. "pH Up"
- Thread starter P00LNerd
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,164
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
It really was not unless you found your RJ-45 was scaling.
Most of the conflicting info came from CircuPool, Aquacomfort, and the manufacturers of the rest of my equipment. The rest came from my pool store. I haven't even looked at unsubstantiated sources.
Okay good.
Got it. Actually just ran out and pulled a sample of fill water. CH is around 150 - 160 ppm, depending on where you call the color change (partial vs. full). So even better.
RJ 45+ has operated just a few days, so nothing yet! Just installed it last weekend.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,164
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
That is a whole other discussion.
Most manufactures manuals repeat government pool water chemistry guidelines that were established in the last century. They are rarely updated and do not reflect modern understanding of pool equipment and chemistry.
Manufacturers have to publish something. They may be "experts" in their equipment but that does not make them experts in pool water chemistry. They will not answer any questions about the basis and science behind what they publish.
Glad I have you guys!
Okay, just tested the fill water:
CH = 150-160 ppm (dep on when you call color change)
TA = 170 - 180 ppm (measured twice)
Lesson 1: no bonus for being near middle vs. edge of range. But if measurement accuracy is low, being on edge of range might really mean being out of range.
Lesson 2: Don't sweat low CSI, only high CSI. I probably won't see high CSI. Highest LSI I ever saw was +0.25 on June 30, but I don't know how that compares to CSI.
Okay, just tested the fill water:
CH = 150-160 ppm (dep on when you call color change)
TA = 170 - 180 ppm (measured twice)
Lesson 1: no bonus for being near middle vs. edge of range. But if measurement accuracy is low, being on edge of range might really mean being out of range.
Lesson 2: Don't sweat low CSI, only high CSI. I probably won't see high CSI. Highest LSI I ever saw was +0.25 on June 30, but I don't know how that compares to CSI.
The most important level to look at in terms of scaling will come from PH. If your pH is high, you will get scaling. There are users here who live in the desert and their fill water is 500ppm+ CH and they never have scale issues. That's why the range is 7.2 to 7.8 PH. Once it gets to 7.8 drop it to 7.2 and let it rise to 7.8. Pool Math will tell you how much your alk and PH will lower with each addition of MA. There's no need to get it to a perfect level. Just get it to the range 7.2 to 7.8 PH and 50 to 90 ALK. But with Alk. you can go over the recommended ranges with no issues, it just means you must closely monitor your PH, since it will rise faster.
- Feb 6, 2015
- 7,813
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
There is no need with a pH of 7.8 to drop the pH to 7.2 - unless you like spending money on acid or trying to keep CSI slightly negative to prevent SWG scaling (usually because of a high CH).
There is no need to force TA down or pH down unless you have scaling. But then, you need to determine the need and plan on what to do. Haphazardly lowering pH serves no purpose.
Many times, letting the pH ride at 7.8 to 8.0 will result in a stable pH without the need to force anything.
There is no need to force TA down or pH down unless you have scaling. But then, you need to determine the need and plan on what to do. Haphazardly lowering pH serves no purpose.
Many times, letting the pH ride at 7.8 to 8.0 will result in a stable pH without the need to force anything.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,164
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You don't fall off a cliff if anything gets slightly out of range. The ranges are set so that nothing bad happens if slightly off.
And usually if you are on the edge of a range just monitor it and see if it self corrects.
About the only things that do not self correct are low FC, high pH, low CYA, and CH levels. Watch for trends rather then absolute values. You can see trends, PoolMath just sees value. If the trend is going in the wrong direction then some corrective action is required.
Thanks, ajw!
Back to the OP... here's my plan:
Back to the OP... here's my plan:
- I will go ahead and raise CYA some, since I already bought the bucket of product, and it should lower my FC losses.
- Adding CYA will probably help bring TA closer to target, but I won't bother with anything else for the sake of chasing TA corrections.
At your Alkalinity there's really no reason to increase your PH. You will be surprised in a couple weeks or so when it's back up to 7.6.
But one way to aerate your water is to point your return jets up, so as to cause a disturbance on your surface. That will get the PH to increase faster.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,164
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Add your CYA if you need it. Although with a pool cover high levels of CYA are optional unless you leave the cover open a lot. Again context matters such as the fact you have a pool cover and how much you keep it open.
Adding stabilizer will lower your pH a bit and has no net effect on TA. Read TA - Further Reading
Nope.
You should open the cover every few days for a while to let the water breathe and get rid of CC's that will accumulate. Otherwise your covered pool will get the chlorine smell.
Adding stabilizer will lower your pH a bit and has no net effect on TA. Read TA - Further Reading
Nope.
You should open the cover every few days for a while to let the water breathe and get rid of CC's that will accumulate. Otherwise your covered pool will get the chlorine smell.
Good. And that's what I was figuring... weeks.
That's the "improvement" was alluding to earlier.
I had a sprinkler on one return, and that gets me about +0.2 ppm/day, when I'm below 7.6. Then, just the other day I realized I could aim the other return up, and gain even a little faster.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,164
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Your PM logs say you have a CYA of 60 (we always round up so not 55) which is fine for an uncovered pool in PA. I would not add any more stabilizer to your pool.
We're opening it for a few hours most afternoons, this time of year. Spring / fall, that can drop to weekends only, but I suppose I could do it more. I find the CC chlorine smell usually dissipates within a few minutes of removing the cover, but maybe that's because I used to run much lower FC.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,164
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I think it comes down to hours uncovered.
FC losses will be higher when uncovered, at the lower CYA. But with a cover installed, losses are minimized, and lower CYA lets me run lower FC... and probably net a little less CC.
Did I get that right?