Above ground Spa GFCI question

[mihzyd777]

Hello,

I currently have 90amp double pole breaker at the house main panel that feeds my Pentair Intellicenter panel. From the Intellicenter panel, I have space to run a 50amp breaker for my 240v spa. Does the GFCI have to be the 50A at the Intellicenter panel which is approx a 145 ft. run to the spa or does it need to be located in the spa disconnect near the spa? If I do put a 50A GFCI in the Intellicenter panel then can I put a regular non-fuseable disconnect next to the spa? What is best practice
Thanks!

 

[YippeeSkippy]

I'm going to refer this to the Electrical Wiz here at TFP.... paging @Mdragger88

 

[Mdragger88]

As far as I understand it doesn’t matter so long as the spa is gfci protected. Your local code requirements may vary.
Personally I’d want the gfci device closest to the spa since the run is so long.
You also want to account for voltage drop when sizing your wire for such a long run.
Let’s ask @ajw22 or @Jimrahbe if there are other considerations to consider as they are pentair dudes.

 

[Jimrahbe]

m,

Not sure what you local rules call for, but I'd want the GFCI right next to the spa. My spa actually takes two GFCI breakers, what about yours???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

First of all there is no advantage to connecting the power to a standalone hot tub power through the IntelliCenter panel unless that was the best electrical connection point.

If you can connect to the main house panel or a subpanel with a breaker box for the GFCI breaker(s) by the hot tub that would be preferred. The less interconnections the better on a high amp circuit.

 

[mihzyd777]

Thank you both for replying. My spa only take 1 double pole 50amp breaker. I would have ran it from the Main breaker, but when the pool was built all the conduit was already laid from the Intellicenter load center to different locations and one being the spa area. The main panel is on the complete other side of the house and would have been well over 250 ft. run. So I'm going to see if I have enough cable to put in a Square D 50 amp Spa GFCI since wires were already cut for the disconnect. IF I don't then my best bet would be in the Intellicenter load center right? I don't like the idea of having to "extended" the power wires with wire nuts as I don't think on higher amperage connections that is a good idea. Do you all feel the same? Thank you again!

 

[ajw22]

Have enough cable form where to where?

 

[JamesW]

Pentair IntelliFlo VSF for filtration, IntelliFlo XF for water features, IC40, DE100 Filter, AquaCal SQ225 Heat Pump.

I currently have 90amp double pole breaker at the house main panel that feeds my Pentair Intellicenter panel.

You have two 3 hp pumps and a heat pump.

If you add on a hot tub, what will be the total maximum load on the 90 amp breaker?

What size wire do you have from the main panel to the IntelliCenter?

How far is it from the main panel to the IntelliCenter?

You have to make sure that your wire size from the main panel to the subpanel and from the subpanel to the hot tub are sized correctly.

You have to make sure that your voltage drop from the main panel to the sub panel and the subpanel to the hot tub do not add up to an excessive voltage drop.

What size wire do you plan to use for the run from the subpanel to the hot tub?

 

[SJPoe]

I located my GFCI near the spa - and I regularly test it using the spa's test feature which trips the GFCI. Having it close to the spa makes it more convenient for this test, as you get visual and auditory feedback
That is then wired back to the main panel to a standard 50A breaker. It is the only device on that circuit.

Should work on the spa be required, having the GFCI within visual range also adds some level of reassurance that the power is truly off. Having it as the only device means surrounding power is available as required for pumps/vaccuums etc (those circuits are either on a panel GFCI breaker, or invidual outlet GFCIs)

My only concern would be what conductors were run to the existing 'close' panel, and if they were sized for the total load. I know in this current house I've found a number of places where the breaker and the wiring don't seem to be in sync...90A over 150Ft is a hefty cable

Forgot my disclaimer : Please, if in any doubt, consult a local, licensed electrician. Local codes vary, and nothing has the potential to ruin your day quite as effectively as an electrical fault in your hot tub.

 

[mihzyd777]

Pentair IntelliFlo VSF for filtration, IntelliFlo XF for water features, IC40, DE100 Filter, AquaCal SQ225 Heat Pump.


You have two 3 hp pumps and a heat pump.

If you add on a hot tub, what will be the total maximum load on the 90 amp breaker?

What size wire do you have from the main panel to the IntelliCenter?

How far is it from the main panel to the IntelliCenter?

I have 4awg wire now from main to Intellicenter about 160ft approx. I did run a 2" conduit in case I need to pull larger wire but I am just about maxed out at all panels. My spa manufacture said the spa can run at 40 or 48A but not clear on the difference going one over the other so just went larger and ran 6awg to my spa. My heat pump pulls max 20amps on start up when the compressor starts. The pool filter pump runs at 20gpm all the time so I believe last reading on that was 88 watts so barely 0.5A and the waterfall pump pulls 600watts when running full so about 2.7-2.8A. The only problem I see going back to main where again it is maxed out with sub panel, solar, EV charger, and pool, is if I try to run my pool heater, spa on full blast with heat, my house A/C and car charger at same time, then maybe I'll get a trip. But honestly in 3 years I have live here I have never had all that going at once.

What do you think? Should I put a 80Amp at main?

 

[JamesW]

The main thing is to make sure that the wire is rated for the entire load and that the cumulative voltage drop is less than 3%.

There are many sites with the necessary calculators for this.

 

[ajw22]

The NEC requires that no CB should be loaded ta more than 80% or rated capacity.

The IntelliCenter panel fed by a 90 amp CB should not have more than 72 amps of load. Two pumps + Heat pump + spa feels like it is getting close to or above the 72 amps.

If you wire the spa through the IntelliCenter I would ensure the HP is off anytime the spa is on. I think you can run one or the other but not both at the same time.

 

[mihzyd777]

The NEC requires that no CB should be loaded ta more than 80% or rated capacity.

The IntelliCenter panel fed by a 90 amp CB should not have more than 72 amps of load. Two pumps + Heat pump + spa feels like it is getting close to or above the 72 amps.

If you wire the spa through the IntelliCenter I would ensure the HP is off anytime the spa is on. I think you can run one or the other but not both at the same time.

Got it. I do plan on doing a full Amp check turning things 1 at a time at full speed to see max pull. Will get back with results. Thank you all for the generous time and help with all this.

Mike

 

[mihzyd777]

Just wanted to update you all and say THANK YOU for the help to give me the confidence to do this. I know how, but having others actually confirm really helped. I hooked up the spa and all is good, all jets, heater everything works great. Just have a small jet leak that I'm taking care of now. Wish me luck : )