about to sign contract; would love some feedback

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ocmagnum

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Bronze Supporter
Oct 14, 2017
58
Richmond, TX
Ladies & Gents,

We are just about to embark on our very first pool build and are both very excited and a little scared ;).

Because we don't have any back neighbors, we have a big utility easement that dictates both the size and design of the pool quite a bit, but we still love our options and having no neighbors in the back is priceless! We will skip the fire features and are still considering other options for the back wall, but it will likely end up looking something like the below:

Concept.jpg
Concept 2.jpg

It's 15' by 30' with a 6' interior spa.

Our PB has given us the following specs:

4" PVC Deck Drain System
Overflow drain tied into drainage system
Automatic fill line with backflow prevention

6 return lines for the pool
8 return lines for the spa
2 anti-vortex main drains each in pool & spa
2 Hayward skimmers
2 pool lights
1 spa light

Hayward 3HP EcoStar Variable Speed pool pump
Hayward SwimClear 425sqf cartridge filter
Hayward H-Series 400KBTU heater
Rainbow Inline Chlorination Back up system
Hayward T-Cell 9 salt water system
Hayward OmniLogic Ultimate App Driven Automation Computer
Hayward Neverlube Valves
Hayward Pool Lights (standard white)
Hayward TigerShark cleaner

Custom Spa with 6' interior and flush tile spillway, multilevel bench seating with contoured back rest, spa light, 8 hydro jets and 1.5 HP Silencer blower

The three 12" sheer descent fountains will run of main pump with ball valve adjustment control behind pool and wireless remote actuator operation

Wet Edge Pearl or Satin Matrix plaster


Anything that stands out in terms of design or equipment that we should clarify before signing the contract? Really would appreciate any/all feedback and thank you in advance for your expertise.

Cheers!
 
HI! LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the design!!!

How deep will the pool be?

Get model numbers for all equipment and share them here.

Since you have been reading already I bet you know what I am going to say........pics of where the pool is going to go please :angle:

Kim:kim:
 
Does the plumbing include a dedicated wall port for a suction line to run the Tiger Shark cleaner? Is it a suction cleaner?

If so, I’d keep the dedicated vacuum line for manual vacuuming and ditch the suction cleaner for a robot instead. Pump driven cleaners are the black rotary dial phone of the pool cleaner world, robots are the iPhones of the pool cleaner world. Pump driven cleaners cause you to run your pool pump at higher speeds than you would otherwise. Robots use far less power than suction cleaners and they do a much better job.

As for the sheer descents, I would put them on their own plumbing loop - separate waterfall pump, wall drain and plumbing. They are a low head, high flow water feature. In order to run them you will have to rob the main pool pump of much of its water return as pool pumps are high head pumps. Also, you don’t want water features running all the time, too much aeration causes pH to rise faster than normal. So having them on their plumbing system allows for easy scheduling and one time valve settings to balance the flow between them. Using a waterfall pump ensures that the correct pump type (lots of flow at low pressure) is used this saving you energy.
 
OC,

There are lots of experts here and you have a couple of the best that have already weighed in. My focus is more from the commercial terms/construction perspective. Here are a couple of things I'd suggest for you to consider:

  • Did you get bids from several PB contractors? If not, do so before you sign this one. Tell the bidder you're doing this and if he tries to talk you out of this do not sign the contract until you talk to at least 2 competitors.
  • Did the PB give you reverences and if so please call them before you sign. If he didn't then ask for them and check them out.
  • Does the contract spell out everything you expect the PB to do. If PB said it but it's not in the contract get them to add it or expect you may have to live without it. Disputes during construction are very bad for owner and builder.
  • Look at the contract and be sure that all the provisions are "two way". For example, if there is a "time is of the essence" clause for the builder make sure it is for you as well. Or alternatively remove it for both of you.
  • Are there some critical inspections you want to do? Such as you may want to inspect the form work before gunite is sprayed. If so, make sure you have an owner hold.
  • Assuming the price is lump sum turnkey, it would be helpful to have reimbursable rates for each craft for extra work in case you end up needing some. You should have this at least for electrical, plumbing.
  • Is there anything in the contract that makes you cringe? If so, check it out with experts before you sign.
  • Does your contract payment terms ensure you don't pay too far ahead of the work performed. If you need help with this get back on this site and ask for help.
  • Who warrants what for how long?

I don't mean to imply your PB is bad. I just think this is a very expensive venture and often the second largest investment home owners make. Trust but verify everything.

I hope this helps and best of luck to you!

Chris
 
If the pool drain is to be tied into the 4” deck drain system then insist that the end point of that drainage is open and visible at its terminal point so that you can know when water is draining from the pool. You also should have them put the auto drain plumbing on a shutoff valve so you can positively control when the pool drains. You don’t want them dead-ending the drainage system into the ground and then basically have it cut off in a few years. If it’s perforated drainage tube, then soils, pebbles and vegetation will eventually clog up the line and render the auto drain useless.

The devil is going to be in the details because you can raise these little nuances with the PB and they’ll just “tut-tut” you and tell you why no one ever does that OR they’ll say “oh yes, we’ll make sure the plumber does this or that” but then conveniently forget only to tell you that it’s now too late to do it.

Get EVERYTHING YOU WANT in writing in the contract or else you lose any leverage you have. Also make sure that payments are scheduled in blocks of no more than 25-30% with at least a 10% hold back at the end of the contract so you have financial leverage. Also ask about lien releases for each subcontractor used as a way of protecting yourself from a PB that might not pay a sub on time (in which case they can come after YOU the homeowner for any late or delinquent payment).

Don’t let the builder sweet-talk you and promise you everything will be as he says. If they balk at any of your requirements, then don’t be afraid to walk away from the contract. It’s your money and your pool and you are the one that has to live with it long after the PB has walked away from your job.
 
Wow guys and gals, thank you so much for all the helpful information and suggestions. You all rock!

The TigerShark is a robotic cleaner, completely independent from the the pool as I understand it. So I don't believe we need to consider anything special for it in the pool build.

The separate pump and the bigger salt cell have been some of my concerns (after reading many posts here) that I still need to address with the PB. Reg the sheer decent, he had mentioned that the only real drawback was that we could not run the features if the system was in spa mode. I was under the impression that having the system in pool mode enabled, but did not necessitate the water features to be on; is that incorrect? In other words, would the features come on every time and for as long as the pool is on?

The drainage will run to pop up at the street, so I think we are all good there.

Excellent commercial points setsailsoon; thanks for listing those. We talked to 6 PB and got detailed quotes from 4 of them. After calling a number of references we just decided to go with this builder and I don't have the actual contract in hand yet; should get it next week.

Keep all those points coming; I love all input!

Have a great evening!
 
Have you looked into AquaBright as a finish? We have an expert on this forum that is an AquaBright installer in California. It costs a lot but, in my opinion, it’s well worth the expense. It’s going in my pool for sure someday!
 
Hello and Welcome to TFP!.
That looks like a great pool you are planning.

The Rainbow Inline Chlorination Back up system is not really needed. You have a SWG for primary sanitation. If that needs a backup, you can easily use liquid chlorine / bleach. If you decide you want to use a couple of chlorine tabs, then an inexpensive floater works just fine and is easy to pull out of the water when done. I don't see any benefit to the additional cost of the Rainbow chlorinator.

The Hayward T-9 is rated for about 25k gallon pool. So if your pool is less than 12k gallons, you should be OK. If its above 12k, you should consider the T-15 cell. For a minimal cost difference, you will get to run the cell less, possibly decrease pump run times, and make the cell last longer.
 
kimkats said:
HI! LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the design!!!

How deep will the pool be?

Get model numbers for all equipment and share them here.

Since you have been reading already I bet you know what I am going to say........pics of where the pool is going to go please :angle:

Kim:kim:
Click to expand...

We are thinking 3.5 to 5.5 for depth.

Here is what I got so far for exact model numbers:

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot] SP3400VSP 230V ECOSTAR
[FONT=&quot] VS PUMP [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
C4030 425SQFT SWIMCLEAR
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] CARTRIDGE FILTER [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot] H400FDN 400K BTU NG DIG CU-NI[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] UNI H-SERIES LN HEATER W/DRAFT [/FONT]
 

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That is a pretty shallow pool. Is that 3.5 the water depth or the wall height? A lot of folks later regretted the 3.5 and wish they'd gone 4' minimum.

Take a tape measure up your leg from the floor and you'll see where the water will hit. Is that where you want it to be?

Maddie :flower:
 
Ours is 3.5'-5.5' and we love it. But to Maddie's point, ours is a gradual slope. So the 3.5' is just the starting point right up against the edge. Get 6' or so away from the wall in the shallow end and you start getting closer to 4' and so on. Only thing we would have done different is actually go to 5' instead of 5.5' in the deep end. Neither depth allows diving and it would have made the "deep" end more usable for large groups standing in the pool.
 
Thanks again for all the great feedback everyone. We have signed the contract!

We made some minor changes to the back wall, completely forgoing the columns. It will be 6", 12" and 18" inch staggered and we added Brilliant Wonders LED descents, instead of the regular ones.

The feedback here also made me push back on the use of the T-9 cell and PB upgraded to T-15 without increasing price. Thanks TFP forum!!!

Plans should go to HOA early next week.
 
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