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Thread: PH slowly rising

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    meatloaf's Avatar
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    PH slowly rising

    My PH tends to rise from 7.6 to 7.9 over a 4 day period. I add acid to bring it back to 7.6 and then it rises again.
    Test results:
    CL - 4
    TA - 85
    PH - 7.6 to 7.8
    CH - 475 (Fill water is hard)
    CYA - 70 (A little high but we get a lot of SUN in Arizona)
    SALT - 3400
    TEMP 88 AM - 92 PM (testing is usually preformed at 6:00AM after the filter has run for 2 hours)
    CSI INDEX - Average is about +.06 depending on the temperature.
    I do not run a SWG, using 3" Trichlor pucks.
    The water is crystal clear. Any suggestions?
    My pool is a 10,500 gallon (420 Sq Ft ) kidney shape. A hand made sheer decent waterfeature. STA-RITE HRPB30, Sand filter 30" 98 GPM,
    1 HP Maxi-Glas 2 pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2005 test kit, 50 Watt 12V low-voltage pond light illuminates the pool at night for a nice soft glow.
    250 gallon stand-alone hot tub. Got it FREE!

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: PH slowly rising

    If your plaster is less than one year old, the PH will rise because of the plaster curing.

    If you run the waterfall every day, the PH will rise because of aeration.

    It is also possible for blown in dust to raise the PH.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    meatloaf's Avatar
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    Re: PH slowly rising

    If your plaster is less than one year old, the PH will rise because of the plaster curing.
    Pool is 15 years old

    If you run the waterfall every day, the PH will rise because of aeration.
    I don't run the waterfall

    It is also possible for blown in dust to raise the PH.
    Dust could be the problem, we haven't had a decent rain in 6 months.
    My pool is a 10,500 gallon (420 Sq Ft ) kidney shape. A hand made sheer decent waterfeature. STA-RITE HRPB30, Sand filter 30" 98 GPM,
    1 HP Maxi-Glas 2 pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2005 test kit, 50 Watt 12V low-voltage pond light illuminates the pool at night for a nice soft glow.
    250 gallon stand-alone hot tub. Got it FREE!

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    Rockcrawler's Avatar
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    Re: PH slowly rising

    Meatloaf,

    I am just about in the same situation as you

    El Paso TX/ hard water

    FC 3
    TA 90
    PH 7.5
    CH 475
    CYA 60
    Salt 3100
    Temp 90-96 (morning its 90 by 6:00 pm 96)
    Borates 35

    Pool is 3 yrs old

    only differences, I do run my SWG about 8 hrs a day at 50%,

    I add 12oz 31% Acid every other day

    water crystal clear

    The main reason why I posted was to see if someone could tell me if it is normal for the PH to rise, can you really have a "balanced" (maintenace free) pool??, what determines balanced?? how long before you have to add the bare minimum of chemicals???
    13,000 IG Plaster, 2hp whisperflo pump, 48 sq in pentair DE Filter, 1 skimmer, 2 eyeball outlets, 200 sq ft solar panels on second story, Auto Pilot SWG-36, Polaris ATV Cleaner

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    meatloaf's Avatar
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    Re: PH slowly rising

    Rockcrawler
    We do have very similiar conditions. I also have to add approx the same amount of acid every 2-3 days.
    My pool is a 10,500 gallon (420 Sq Ft ) kidney shape. A hand made sheer decent waterfeature. STA-RITE HRPB30, Sand filter 30" 98 GPM,
    1 HP Maxi-Glas 2 pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2005 test kit, 50 Watt 12V low-voltage pond light illuminates the pool at night for a nice soft glow.
    250 gallon stand-alone hot tub. Got it FREE!

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    meatloaf's Avatar
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    Re: PH slowly rising

    Dropped TA to 80 and it's still rising. 7.7 this morning - 7.6 yesterday - 7.5 the morning before. ?????
    My pool is a 10,500 gallon (420 Sq Ft ) kidney shape. A hand made sheer decent waterfeature. STA-RITE HRPB30, Sand filter 30" 98 GPM,
    1 HP Maxi-Glas 2 pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2005 test kit, 50 Watt 12V low-voltage pond light illuminates the pool at night for a nice soft glow.
    250 gallon stand-alone hot tub. Got it FREE!

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    Re: PH slowly rising

    Each pool is different and some of the changes in pool water are inexplicable. My pool rises in pH as well.....No reason other than I assume it likes to aggravate me.

    Rockcrawler, there is no maintenance free pool. Excluding chlorine (obviously), your other parameters have to be tested and adjusted from time to time. That's what BBB is all about. The careful testing of your pool and knowing what to do if you get out of certain pre-established guidelines. A "balanced" pool falls within those guidelines but it won't stay there on it's own. Some get "out of balance" much quicker than others.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
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    meatloaf's Avatar
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    Re: PH slowly rising

    duraleigh
    Is there anything that looks wacky in my test results that could be causing th PH rise. It just seems to be rising rather quickly to me. I did recently lower the TA to 80 in hopes of slowing down the rising PH. My filter only runs 6 hours a day,
    (2 - 3 hour cycles and the water is clear)
    Thanks, I appreciate your efforts.
    My pool is a 10,500 gallon (420 Sq Ft ) kidney shape. A hand made sheer decent waterfeature. STA-RITE HRPB30, Sand filter 30" 98 GPM,
    1 HP Maxi-Glas 2 pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2005 test kit, 50 Watt 12V low-voltage pond light illuminates the pool at night for a nice soft glow.
    250 gallon stand-alone hot tub. Got it FREE!

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    Re: PH slowly rising

    You have an SWG and that makes the pH rise (for reasons we're still trying to definitively determine, but have some ideas). One thing you could try is to point your returns a little more downwards. By any chance is the run of pipe between your SWG and the pool relatively short? If so, then the chlorine gas may not have enough time to fully dissolve and pointing the returns downward might help. Let us know if you do this and if it helps.

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    meatloaf's Avatar
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    Re: PH slowly rising

    I don't have a SWG, too pricey. Using 3" pucks in floater. I use 1 every 3-4 days.
    My pool is a 10,500 gallon (420 Sq Ft ) kidney shape. A hand made sheer decent waterfeature. STA-RITE HRPB30, Sand filter 30" 98 GPM,
    1 HP Maxi-Glas 2 pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2005 test kit, 50 Watt 12V low-voltage pond light illuminates the pool at night for a nice soft glow.
    250 gallon stand-alone hot tub. Got it FREE!

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    Rockcrawler's Avatar
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    Re: PH slowly rising

    Got it Duraleigh

    Didn't mean to hi jack the thread.

    Meatloaf,

    U just got me into this now, my PH was on the rise so I went ahead a lowered my PH to 7.2 and ran my waterfall all night and day, got home and tested my PH, it was at 7.5 so I am done aerrating for now well wait and see how long until the PH rises
    13,000 IG Plaster, 2hp whisperflo pump, 48 sq in pentair DE Filter, 1 skimmer, 2 eyeball outlets, 200 sq ft solar panels on second story, Auto Pilot SWG-36, Polaris ATV Cleaner

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    Re: PH slowly rising

    Please let me know your results.
    Thanks
    My pool is a 10,500 gallon (420 Sq Ft ) kidney shape. A hand made sheer decent waterfeature. STA-RITE HRPB30, Sand filter 30" 98 GPM,
    1 HP Maxi-Glas 2 pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2005 test kit, 50 Watt 12V low-voltage pond light illuminates the pool at night for a nice soft glow.
    250 gallon stand-alone hot tub. Got it FREE!

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    Re: PH slowly rising

    Oh boy! A fellow 'zonie! In Marana, (Tucson area) here.

    I don't think you can do anything about your slowly rising Ph. The desert soil is clay, so it's alkaline. And then we get those wonderful dust storms here. Those of us at work who own pools joke about how much dust is okay at the bottom of the pool, because there's no way we can keep it out of there. Also, I don't know about Gilbert, but the tap water here is slightly high in Ph. And I usually lose about 3 inches a week due to evaporation, so have to refill with tap water. So I've just figured I have to deal with slowly rising Ph. It's not too bad; I usually have to add a cup of muriatic acid per week, maybe a little more.

    Do keep an eye on your CYA, by the way. As you know, our swimming season is long here, and those pucks will keep adding CYA. Some say that the higher level like what you have adds more protection to the chlorine than a lower level of 40 or 50, others say no. But, regardless, if it gets much higher, you will start running into problems. I myself do use 10% bleach, and do not find it any trouble to add a cup of it daily. I have 40ppm CYA, and have a 9400 gallon pool. It doesn't really aggravate the slowly rising Ph situation; although the bleach itself is alkaline, the reaction when the chlorine is used, it's acid. So using bleach really turns out to be pretty much Ph neutral. I'm not sure, but it seems like my Ph rises a little more slowly using the 10% over the 6%. That could be my imagination, or maybe because when I started to use 10% was when we started to get a little rain so I started to use less tap water, though.
    Above ground soft side Omega pool
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    meatloaf's Avatar
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    Re: PH slowly rising

    My tap water tests are:
    PH 8
    TOTAL ALKALINITY 100
    CALCIUM HARDNESS 250
    You could have a valid point about the evaporation issue, I never really factored that in.
    Thanks
    My pool is a 10,500 gallon (420 Sq Ft ) kidney shape. A hand made sheer decent waterfeature. STA-RITE HRPB30, Sand filter 30" 98 GPM,
    1 HP Maxi-Glas 2 pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2005 test kit, 50 Watt 12V low-voltage pond light illuminates the pool at night for a nice soft glow.
    250 gallon stand-alone hot tub. Got it FREE!

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    Re: PH slowly rising

    Quote Originally Posted by meatloaf
    I don't have a SWG, too pricey. Using 3" pucks in floater. I use 1 every 3-4 days.
    Sorry. I looked at rockcrawler's signature so my previous comments would apply to his pool, not yours.

    Having your pH rise and using Trichlor tablets (I assume the 3" pucks in a floater are Trichlor) is very strange since such pucks are very acidic. Even with fill water that is at a pH of 8, that would lead to a negligible rise in pH even replacing lots of the water -- the buffering in the water prevents the water replacement from having much effect.

    Does the water get very chopped up from wind? Perhaps that's a source of strong aeration. Rain often makes the pH rise for a similar reason.

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Rockcrawler's Avatar
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    Re: PH slowly rising

    Swimgirl and Chemgeek bring up very valid points

    Cheemgeek
    Having your pH rise and using Trichlor tablets (I assume the 3" pucks in a floater are Trichlor) is very strange since such pucks are very acidic.
    That is really strange for Meatloafs situation, never thought of that Cheemgeek

    Swimgirl
    but the tap water here is slightly high in Ph. And I usually lose about 3 inches a week due to evaporation, so have to refill with tap water.

    Although I did know about Trichlor being acidy and did notice while I was on vacation, my PH did not rise as much, I had 3 pucks in a floater.

    I am in the same boat as Swimgirl I add about 3 inches of water a week

    Although 3 inches is a small amout of water to add to 13000 gallon I would agree it has some affect



    My PH today is 7.5

    We have probaly beat this thread up

    I will test my tap water tomarow

    Rob
    13,000 IG Plaster, 2hp whisperflo pump, 48 sq in pentair DE Filter, 1 skimmer, 2 eyeball outlets, 200 sq ft solar panels on second story, Auto Pilot SWG-36, Polaris ATV Cleaner

  17. Back To Top    #17
    meatloaf's Avatar
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    Re: PH slowly rising

    I'm not sure how much water is added due to the fact I have an automatic fill. My PH was about 7.7 this morning and still holding 7.7 at this time. I'll check it again tomorrow @ 6:00 AM, my usual time. I sure would like to have it top out at
    7.5-7.6. I'll be taking a sample in to Shasta Pool tomorrow and have a professional test.
    My pool is a 10,500 gallon (420 Sq Ft ) kidney shape. A hand made sheer decent waterfeature. STA-RITE HRPB30, Sand filter 30" 98 GPM,
    1 HP Maxi-Glas 2 pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2005 test kit, 50 Watt 12V low-voltage pond light illuminates the pool at night for a nice soft glow.
    250 gallon stand-alone hot tub. Got it FREE!

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: PH slowly rising

    Well, in meatloaf's signature it says "15 Quik-Klean jets and hand made sheer decent waterfeature." That's a heck of a lot of aeration so unless the TA is very low, it's quite possible that the acidity from the Trichlor is balanced by the rise in pH from outgassing carbon dioxide from higher TA plus aeration. In fact, that's one reason why it is best to have a higher TA when using Trichlor, usually around 120 ppm. Over time, the TA will slowly drop unless there is lots of evaporation and the fill water is high in TA.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  19. Back To Top    #19
    meatloaf's Avatar
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    Re: PH slowly rising

    I rarely run the waterfall and the Quik-Klean jets don't cause any aeration just a great deal of turbulence. There is only 1 jet mounted in the top step that breaks the surface.
    I'll figure it out eventually but I do appreciate all the help.
    My pool is a 10,500 gallon (420 Sq Ft ) kidney shape. A hand made sheer decent waterfeature. STA-RITE HRPB30, Sand filter 30" 98 GPM,
    1 HP Maxi-Glas 2 pump, BBB Method, Taylor K-2005 test kit, 50 Watt 12V low-voltage pond light illuminates the pool at night for a nice soft glow.
    250 gallon stand-alone hot tub. Got it FREE!

  20. Back To Top    #20
    revstriker's Avatar
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    Re: PH slowly rising

    Add me to the list of climbing PH. I use the BBB method and add bleach to the pool every day (probably averages around 60 ounces a day). About every other day, I need to add between 9 and 18 ounces of MA to get my PH down. I was aerating earlier in an attempt to keep the temp down, but that really didn't work well, and ended up with me just using more MA. This is the second year with the pool, and I didn't have this issue last year (using BBB). In fact, all last season I only used 3 gallons of MA. I'm already up to my 5th gallon this year. The only difference I know of this year is that the temps are higher and there has been less rain.

    I normally bring my FC up to 5.0 every evening. By the next day, it's down to about 2.0. CC is normally zero. Sometimes I'll get a slight pink, but it's less than 0.5. TA is around 100. This keeps going down, and I have to bring it back up every couple of weeks with Baking Soda. CH is around 300 and CYA is around 35-40. Pool temp right now is around 92.

    I haven't tested my fill water, and I have no idea how much water I'm using everyday as I also have an auto fill system.

    Also, water is crystal clear, so I really don't have a concern, just a curiosity at this point.
    10K White Plaster Pool Built in 2007. Hayward Pump and DE Filter, Hayward Navigator, Liquidator (Removed due to issues), Solar Blanket, BBB user.

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