Green pool, I'm losing faith in the fight!!
- Thread starter cdkoster
- Start date
I did the Vitamin C tablet test and it seems to have lightened up the darker spots.
Metals can't get in a pool unless they have been added. So, lets see if we can help you figure out how they got in the pool. How do you add water to your pool, well or municipal?
The only time we suggest pool store testing is metals. You can take two samples to the pool store, your pool water and tap water (the source of water that you add to the pool) to see the metal content and the type of metals.
Don't buy anything from the pool store, post your metal results and we will help you come up with a plan of attack.
The only time we suggest pool store testing is metals. You can take two samples to the pool store, your pool water and tap water (the source of water that you add to the pool) to see the metal content and the type of metals.
Don't buy anything from the pool store, post your metal results and we will help you come up with a plan of attack.
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Your water authority is required to publish water test results yearly. If metals are in the municipal water, it would be listed in the annual report. These reports are usually found online.
It wouldn't hurt to test both tap and pool water a local pool store for metals. The suggestions will depend on whether your fill water has metals.
It wouldn't hurt to test both tap and pool water a local pool store for metals. The suggestions will depend on whether your fill water has metals.
^At the start of this thread, Laurie reported .3 ppm of copper, but drained/diluted much of it.
Laurie, if the staining is from the copper, I'd suggest instead of Ascorbic Acid, you use either Jacks Magic Stain Solution #2, which works well on copper, or try an under water acid wash using a tool like this, though not sure I love that idea on vinyl though I suppose its not much different than the sulfamic acid in jacks : Amazon.com: Purity Pool UAW Underwater Acid Wash Set: Patio, Lawn Garden
AA is not always effective on copper.
Laurie, if the staining is from the copper, I'd suggest instead of Ascorbic Acid, you use either Jacks Magic Stain Solution #2, which works well on copper, or try an under water acid wash using a tool like this, though not sure I love that idea on vinyl though I suppose its not much different than the sulfamic acid in jacks : Amazon.com: Purity Pool UAW Underwater Acid Wash Set: Patio, Lawn Garden
AA is not always effective on copper.
Stopped into 2 pool places today for testing.
PoolXperts did a computerized reading:
FC 12.56
TC 13.29
CC .73
pH 7.6
Hardness 79ppm
Akalanity 53ppm
CYA 43ppm
Copper .3ppm
Iron .3ppm
Borate 5ppm
They recommended Add 8.8 oz Aquabrite Metal Out
Add 25lb of Alk - 10lb every hour
Add 25lb of Calcium - 5lb at a time
(waiting 1 hr. in between adding chemicals)
Leslie's
Municipal water from Leslie's testing was .3
FC 5
TC 5
Calcium 110
CYA 30
Alk 110
pH 8
Acid Demand 1
Copper 0
Iron 0
Total Dissolved Solids 2500
Phosphates 200
So.... what's our next step? The shallow end is about clear, but still can't see the drain in the deep end, but very close.
PoolXperts did a computerized reading:
FC 12.56
TC 13.29
CC .73
pH 7.6
Hardness 79ppm
Akalanity 53ppm
CYA 43ppm
Copper .3ppm
Iron .3ppm
Borate 5ppm
They recommended Add 8.8 oz Aquabrite Metal Out
Add 25lb of Alk - 10lb every hour
Add 25lb of Calcium - 5lb at a time
(waiting 1 hr. in between adding chemicals)
Leslie's
Municipal water from Leslie's testing was .3
FC 5
TC 5
Calcium 110
CYA 30
Alk 110
pH 8
Acid Demand 1
Copper 0
Iron 0
Total Dissolved Solids 2500
Phosphates 200
So.... what's our next step? The shallow end is about clear, but still can't see the drain in the deep end, but very close.
Now you see why nobody at TFP puts any stock in pool store tests 
...I'm assuming you went for the metals testing, but as you see, even those don't accord Right now you don't need anything they said so ignore.
But your SLAM Process isn't over until you meet all three criteria (including crystal clarity) and pass the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test and you must finish the slam before addressing the stains or adding metal sequestrants because to do otherwise would possibly wreck both treatments Slam value FC breaks down metal sequestrant.
So when you're finished the slam, post a picture and your own test results and we can try to figure out the staining.
To get ready for a stain treatment with such inconclusive results, it may be worth orderng a Jacks Magic stain test ID kit and then following their protocol based on the results. You'd be able to see whether your staining is more iron or copper in comparison.
If you go with the Jacks line, the Jacks Magic Pink is the more aggressive sequestrant for metals. Whether you do an AA treatment or a Jacks treatment or acid wash to remove stains you will need sequestrant to apply after the treatment so you can get that now.
The reason I'm suggesting the Jacks stain ID kit isn't because I've bought stock in the company or anything...its just that I don't want to see you go to the time and expense of an AA treatment and not have it work effectively.
If you prefer DIY testing, you could get some dry acid and do the vitamin c test against a dry acid test on the same stain area. If dry acid works better in the same time, ten its more likely copper.
With iron, the vit c should remove the spot it sits on completely.
...I'm assuming you went for the metals testing, but as you see, even those don't accord Right now you don't need anything they said so ignore.But your SLAM Process isn't over until you meet all three criteria (including crystal clarity) and pass the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test and you must finish the slam before addressing the stains or adding metal sequestrants because to do otherwise would possibly wreck both treatments
Slam value FC breaks down metal sequestrant.So when you're finished the slam, post a picture and your own test results and we can try to figure out the staining.
To get ready for a stain treatment with such inconclusive results, it may be worth orderng a Jacks Magic stain test ID kit and then following their protocol based on the results. You'd be able to see whether your staining is more iron or copper in comparison.
If you go with the Jacks line, the Jacks Magic Pink is the more aggressive sequestrant for metals. Whether you do an AA treatment or a Jacks treatment or acid wash to remove stains you will need sequestrant to apply after the treatment so you can get that now.
The reason I'm suggesting the Jacks stain ID kit isn't because I've bought stock in the company or anything...its just that I don't want to see you go to the time and expense of an AA treatment and not have it work effectively.
If you prefer DIY testing, you could get some dry acid and do the vitamin c test against a dry acid test on the same stain area. If dry acid works better in the same time, ten its more likely copper.
With iron, the vit c should remove the spot it sits on completely.
Good morning, Laurie. Yes, that's the stain kit I was referring to. I think it will help give you the most definitive results and then a way forward.
Thanks for the picture.
Can you tell us a bit about when the stain first appeared? Just this season,always a struggle, or is the pool new to you?
When you first posted, you referred to the problem of .3 ppm copper but hadn't mentioned iron. I know that you've since diluted the water, but also that one pool store test was still reading .3 ppm of both copper and iron.
Do you have any theories as to where the copper originally came from? Eg did you make heavy use of an algaecide with copper in it? Or do you have a heater whose heat exchanger went bad?
Doing a treatment may be expensive in a pool your size, so trying to identify the source of staining and future prevention is a good idea before treating when possible.
One thing to note is that with any metals in the water, its best to closely watch your ph and keep it down to around 7.2 ppm.
And as you've likely guessed, its also important to maintain the [fc/cya][/FC/cya] so that you can avoid the need to slam.
Maintenance doses of sequestrant (eg weekly) will also help avoid future staining once your stains are lifted and the metal is sequestered.
But above and beyond all that, skimming through the thread here, you've had a rough season in terms of having to slam, then slam again.
The trick is to do the slam and ensure the organics are completely eradicated before tackling stains so that you don't end up having to slam again.
Slamming essentially "undoes" a stain treatment...it will wear off the sequestrant, which also gets oxidized. Metals can then precipitate and stain.
After I slammed a foreclosure into submission 5 years ago, I've not ad to slam since. I did this by never letting my FC drop too low...and sometimes that meant dosing a bit on the high side. But that allowed me to just focus on managing the metals. (I have iron from a well, plus copper from a dying heat exchanger.)
So please hit hard on the slam a little longer to be crystal clear before you start ANY sequestering and stain treatments. I don't want your efforts to be wasted!
Thanks for the picture.
Can you tell us a bit about when the stain first appeared? Just this season,always a struggle, or is the pool new to you?
When you first posted, you referred to the problem of .3 ppm copper but hadn't mentioned iron. I know that you've since diluted the water, but also that one pool store test was still reading .3 ppm of both copper and iron.
Do you have any theories as to where the copper originally came from? Eg did you make heavy use of an algaecide with copper in it? Or do you have a heater whose heat exchanger went bad?
Doing a treatment may be expensive in a pool your size, so trying to identify the source of staining and future prevention is a good idea before treating when possible.
One thing to note is that with any metals in the water, its best to closely watch your ph and keep it down to around 7.2 ppm.
And as you've likely guessed, its also important to maintain the [fc/cya][/FC/cya] so that you can avoid the need to slam.
Maintenance doses of sequestrant (eg weekly) will also help avoid future staining once your stains are lifted and the metal is sequestered.
But above and beyond all that, skimming through the thread here, you've had a rough season in terms of having to slam, then slam again.
The trick is to do the slam and ensure the organics are completely eradicated before tackling stains so that you don't end up having to slam again.
Slamming essentially "undoes" a stain treatment...it will wear off the sequestrant, which also gets oxidized. Metals can then precipitate and stain.
After I slammed a foreclosure into submission 5 years ago, I've not ad to slam since. I did this by never letting my FC drop too low...and sometimes that meant dosing a bit on the high side. But that allowed me to just focus on managing the metals. (I have iron from a well, plus copper from a dying heat exchanger.)
So please hit hard on the slam a little longer to be crystal clear before you start ANY sequestering and stain treatments. I don't want your efforts to be wasted!
Thank you. The stains are new this year. I'm still slamming at 12, and it's maintaining at that level but not quite clear yet. I could see the drain, though, for the first time yesterday.
We have metal ladders, and I'm not sure if this was enough to do anything, but a plastic bucket with a rusted metal handle was found in the pool once it started getting clear. It actually floated to the top when we started the slam process. Would this have been enough to heighten the copper level? No heavy use of an algaecide or heater. Prior to this season, it was maintained by my husband mostly with chlorine pucks in the chlorinator, and an occasional shock treatment. I'll post another photo of where we are later today.
We have metal ladders, and I'm not sure if this was enough to do anything, but a plastic bucket with a rusted metal handle was found in the pool once it started getting clear. It actually floated to the top when we started the slam process. Would this have been enough to heighten the copper level? No heavy use of an algaecide or heater. Prior to this season, it was maintained by my husband mostly with chlorine pucks in the chlorinator, and an occasional shock treatment. I'll post another photo of where we are later today.
The pool is actually bluer than these photos show, but you can definitely see the stains vs. the blue portion of the floor.
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You should still continue your SLAM as you still have some residual cloudiness when the pump is running. Make sure you brush at least once a day. Let us know when you pass the OCLT.
This is the point where a little DE might help get rid of the remaining cloudiness or you can just wait for the sand filter finish the job. Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter
I doubt the ladders contributed unless they have rusted, so inspect and post up pics. The bucket handle doesn't have copper, but maybe some iron.
Many powdered "shock" treatments contain copper especially if any had the word "blue" in the name or description. Even some pucks can contain copper especially with the use of key words like "dual action". Always check the active ingredients of a product and MSDS.
It wouldn't take too long using copper containing "shock" or pucks to increase your copper levels.
This is the point where a little DE might help get rid of the remaining cloudiness or you can just wait for the sand filter finish the job. Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter
I doubt the ladders contributed unless they have rusted, so inspect and post up pics. The bucket handle doesn't have copper, but maybe some iron.
Many powdered "shock" treatments contain copper especially if any had the word "blue" in the name or description. Even some pucks can contain copper especially with the use of key words like "dual action". Always check the active ingredients of a product and MSDS.
It wouldn't take too long using copper containing "shock" or pucks to increase your copper levels.
Hi everyone! Time to open the pool - although we don't cover it in the winter, just keep the pump going. Here are the current levels.
Chlorine 0
pH 7.2
CYA over 100
Alkalinity 70 ppm
It was suggested to slam the pool with 15 gallons of 8.25% 121 jugs of bleach. Going to WalMart to re-stock. What else should I be doing or aware of? I'm also trying to get ahead so when the pool gets warmer, I can do the Jack's Stain Testing to figure out these massive light gray stains on the bottom. Thanks in advance for any help. I'm excited about staying ahead of this this season.
Chlorine 0
pH 7.2
CYA over 100
Alkalinity 70 ppm
It was suggested to slam the pool with 15 gallons of 8.25% 121 jugs of bleach. Going to WalMart to re-stock. What else should I be doing or aware of? I'm also trying to get ahead so when the pool gets warmer, I can do the Jack's Stain Testing to figure out these massive light gray stains on the bottom. Thanks in advance for any help. I'm excited about staying ahead of this this season.
clambert1273
Gold Supporter
- Jun 13, 2013
- 1,513
- Pool Size
- 12000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool Edge-40
This is what I would do mine is never closed; however, I let it go during the "winter" so as I start prepping for open (started 2 weeks ago) I do what you did... run the tests and start from there...
If you used a test kit and not pool store, then I would start draining to get the cya down FIRST and then start a SLAM. Luckily my CYA is about zero every spring so I just get slam going and then balance.
My two cents
Christina
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mine is never closed; however, I let it go during the "winter" so as I start prepping for open (started 2 weeks ago) I do what you did... run the tests and start from there...If you used a test kit and not pool store, then I would start draining to get the cya down FIRST and then start a SLAM. Luckily my CYA is about zero every spring so I just get slam going and then balance.
My two cents
Christina
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I just did a new test using half tap water and half pool water, then doubled it. The reading is now 160 and according to the PC, I need to drain 69% of the pool. Quite a lot for a 44,000 gallon pool. My questions are, though:
a) Since we have to also do a stain test, would it be better to wait until the water is above 65 degrees, drain half at a time, then do the stain test while the water is low?
b) How do I figure out what 69% of the pool water looks like?
c) Do we need to do it in increments so as not to damage the liner/pool? (This was read online somewhere.)
d) Anything else I need to know?
Thank you.
a) Since we have to also do a stain test, would it be better to wait until the water is above 65 degrees, drain half at a time, then do the stain test while the water is low?
b) How do I figure out what 69% of the pool water looks like?
c) Do we need to do it in increments so as not to damage the liner/pool? (This was read online somewhere.)
d) Anything else I need to know?
Thank you.
This is what I would do
If you used a test kit and not pool store, then I would start draining to get the cya down FIRST and then start a SLAM. Luckily my CYA is about zero every spring so I just get slam going and then balance.
My two cents
Christina
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clambert1273
Gold Supporter
- Jun 13, 2013
- 1,513
- Pool Size
- 12000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool Edge-40
Since it is liner, the yes you will have to do increments leaving a foot in the shallow end to prevent liner from shifting or damage.
I am not sure on the stains and someone else can speak to that (I haven't had that issue so don't want to guess).
My thought would be drain to one foot in shallow end, refill and then retest CYA to see where you are then decide if it needs another drain or not
Christina
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I am not sure on the stains and someone else can speak to that (I haven't had that issue so don't want to guess).
My thought would be drain to one foot in shallow end, refill and then retest CYA to see where you are then decide if it needs another drain or not
Christina
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