both skimmers are on the pool. the intake valves I assume are from main drains...one for pool and one for spa. the intake valves have pool and spa written on them.
superflo vs. whisperflo
- Thread starter xxxmedicxxx
- Start date
- May 3, 2007
- 16,988
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
So if both your pool and spa have main drains (?) and your pool has two skimmers and the suction valves are labeled pool and spa, the PB must have combined the two skimmers and pool main drain into one line by the pool and ran it to the equipment since there is only one suction line from the pool. The other suction line is just the main drain on the spa. Am I understanding you correctly?
So now, if you turn off the valves for both the pool suction and return so the suction is spa only and the return is spa only, what is the filter pressure under this scenario?
So now, if you turn off the valves for both the pool suction and return so the suction is spa only and the return is spa only, what is the filter pressure under this scenario?
Yes, that is the conclusion I have come up with as well. Both skimmers and main drain are from 1 line. with spa intake open and spa return open I get 14psi.
That is with everything else closed. 14 psi. I wish I could find out what my old pump size is, but without the markings its a no go.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,988
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
So with 14 PSI and 4 3/8" spa jets, I don't think the pump is very big. If I model the spa with information you gave me, I get close to 14 PSI with a 3/4 up rated Superflo. But the problem I see is that the flow rate per jet is only 10 GPM or about 40 GPM total and that flow rate with the size jet should be fairly weak. It would be what you are use to but normally, you want 15 GPM per jet for 3/8" jets to have them feel moderately strong.
So there may still be some uncertainty about what you have. One way to confirm your pump size is to remove the wet end and get a part# off of the impeller. It may take some work to do that and I wouldn't want you to break the pump in the process but that is the only way that I know of that would confirm the size of the pump.
So there may still be some uncertainty about what you have. One way to confirm your pump size is to remove the wet end and get a part# off of the impeller. It may take some work to do that and I wouldn't want you to break the pump in the process but that is the only way that I know of that would confirm the size of the pump.
Do you think I am going to be sorry if I get a 1 hp whisperflo with the info that I gave you. Or what about 1 1/2 hp. I want to order soon as summer is here and I want to install a heater for the spa. I would rather pay more and have too much HP,than not enough.... but I dont want to jack up the old copper 1/1/2 plumbing
- May 3, 2007
- 16,988
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Either Whisperflo is probably a much much bigger pump than you have now. But again, there is no way to tell for sure unless you look at your old pump's impeller. If it was my pool, I would not guess.
There are several issue with choosing a larger pump. The biggest problem is that it might exceed the maximum flow rate recommendations for the filter but because of the head loss in the plumbing, the flow rate is somewhat self regulating in that is difficult for a large pump to produce high flow rate on small plumbing.
Another issue is pipe water velocity. This is can be a issue with spas and entrapment. New regulations require that spas have either slow water velocity in the suction plumbing (< 6 feet/sec) or you have a SVRS system installed on the spa suction. Because the pipe is so small, it does not take much flow rate to exceed 6 ft/sec. In fact even the 3/4 Superflo will exceed 6 ft/sec but not by a lot. So if you go with a pump larger than that, you might want to consider a SVRS system.
Lastly, is energy use. The larger the pump, the more energy it will use.
Because of the unknowns on this pool, have you considered a VS pump? You can set it to what ever you need plus they come in a SVRS version as well. They do cost more but in this case, it might be worth the extra cost.
There are several issue with choosing a larger pump. The biggest problem is that it might exceed the maximum flow rate recommendations for the filter but because of the head loss in the plumbing, the flow rate is somewhat self regulating in that is difficult for a large pump to produce high flow rate on small plumbing.
Another issue is pipe water velocity. This is can be a issue with spas and entrapment. New regulations require that spas have either slow water velocity in the suction plumbing (< 6 feet/sec) or you have a SVRS system installed on the spa suction. Because the pipe is so small, it does not take much flow rate to exceed 6 ft/sec. In fact even the 3/4 Superflo will exceed 6 ft/sec but not by a lot. So if you go with a pump larger than that, you might want to consider a SVRS system.
Lastly, is energy use. The larger the pump, the more energy it will use.
Because of the unknowns on this pool, have you considered a VS pump? You can set it to what ever you need plus they come in a SVRS version as well. They do cost more but in this case, it might be worth the extra cost.
The VS pump is out of my price range. I thank you for your help. I think with all of the info you have given me as well as my own research I think I am going to go with a 1 hp whisperflo. I will look into SVRS as I have young children. If I have problems with the filter being too small I can replace it down the road, I cant replace plumbing, but I can always down size the pump impeller to a 3/4hp. We shal see how it all works. Have you ever heard of the copper lines degrading from too much pressure?
- May 3, 2007
- 16,988
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
No but your filter could have an issue. It is only 36 sq-ft with a maximum flow rate of 72 GPM. The Whisperflo is a very powerful pump and I usually don't recommend that on 1.5" plumbing. I think an up rated 1 HP Superflo would be more than enough and probably much bigger than the pump you have now. At least as far as I can tell from your pressure.
But why the reluctance to take apart your current pump? It isn't that hard.
But why the reluctance to take apart your current pump? It isn't that hard.
I agree, but what is that going to show? I feel like the pump is under powered, as you said it seems like the spa jets are weak and you would like to see higher pressures...correct? so I want to find the right size pump for my plumbing, pool size, needs, and possibility of solar in the future, so I just don't see the point in taking apart a 30 year old pump, and have the possibility for leaks. I should be able to select the right pump based on needs and plumbing without knowing what pump I have...right?
If you had to pick a pump based on the info you have seen, what would you go with.....other than a VS pump?
I have seen a deal on a superflo 2 speed 1hp. Is that that much better for my application than a singlespeed 1hp whisperflo?
- May 3, 2007
- 16,988
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I really don't like to make that kind of recommendation without knowing the existing pump size because it can easily lead to mistakes. If I had a better idea of the plumbing under ground, I would feel more comfortable making a recommendation. I think have a pretty good idea what your plumbing setup consists of and given that, the 1 HP Superflo seems like the right size but there are still some missing pieces. If you want to take a risk with the Superflo that's fine, given the plumbing size, that is the maximum size I would probably recommend anyway and if you are ok with the spa jets as they are, then it will probably be ok. But I would be reluctant to put a bigger pump on that plumbing anyway.xxxmedicxxx said:
But let me give you one more option that would help and not be so invasive. If you can attach a vacuum gauge (automotive type is fine) to the pump basket drain plug, I can then determine the suction head for your plumbing. I still won't know for sure the flow rate the pump is producing but I can see if it comes close to the model. If the suction head is a reasonable number, then I can be assured that there is nothing that I didn't take into account.
so as luck would have it I found the ID tag for the pump.buried under the pump. It is partially readable. It says Aqua Flo model 10 S.N 2027...I posting.php?mode=reply&f=5&t=43717cant read the rest. Could this be that it is a 1hp pump? 
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- May 3, 2007
- 16,988
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
It looks like model no. 10 or am I reading incorrectly. I couldn't find anything for that model but it could be a 1 HP. But given the pressure, I would guess it is an uprated 1 HP.
xxxmedicxxx said:
That is the pump I am working on installing this weekend. Got it delivered for under $400. Nice thing about the Superflo 2 speed is that it has a built in switch to select speeds ... not positive the Whisperflo does (although I have contacted Pentair to ask)
Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone
- May 3, 2007
- 16,988
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Mark, I am still in the process of purchasing equipment, but I am still unsure of which one to go with. I am taking your advice and looking into the variable speed, but I one pool guy tell me it is too much, and another saying the intelliflo is my best option. I think I am sold on it, But what do you think. remember I have 1 1/2 plumbing.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,988
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
A variable speed pump is also a variable power pump so I really don't understand why some say it is "too much". You can set the RPM for any strength so it is never "too much". Perhaps they mean too much money which I can understand although the price point of the VS 011018 is pretty attractive and the difference in price with the two speed is narrowing. But I think the premium is worth the ability to dynamically set the operating point to whatever you need/want. This is especially true in your situation where you don't quite know how big to size the pump to satisfy the jets.
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