24' Round Pool to be installed 7/26 - Need Help!!!

[TSpa]

The details of the pool, pump and filter I ordered is in my signature. It is scheduled to be installed on 7/26. I do not have a date from the electrician yet but hopefully the electrical part will happen soon after the pool is up. I was originally planning on going with either liquid chlorine or some sort of floating tab for the sanitation. That was due to all the fear that was instilled into me by the various pool stores I spoke with. They all said my pool would rust out in 3 - 5 years. However, I have been reading many great things on this forum by very happy above ground steel wall pool owners using SWG systems. At this point from what I am reading on this forum I am leaning toward adding a SWG system. The many benefits seem to outweigh the small if any long term negatives. I have read a lot on these forums. I am also familiar with the chemistry/maintenance involved with my bromine spa that I setup in October. However, I do not need to worry about CYA, CH, vinyl liners or SWG with my spa. I have been reading up on those items. Here are my questions.

1) Test Kit - I use the Taylor K-2106 test kit for my spa and it has been great. When the ABG is in will I need an additional test kit such as the TF-100 kit? If using SWG should I get the TF-100 with salt strips?

2) Wiring - My installer will not install the SWG system. He installs the pool, liner, puts pump/filter on blocks and connects flex hoses from pump/filter to skimmer and return. I inquired about doing a main drain but they (and all other installers in my area I talked to) don’t do them. I have not spoken to an electrician yet. Do most electricians that hook up pool pumps also wire up SWG systems?

3) Mounting – Does the electrician installing the mounting post required to mount the electrical plug/switch for pump and whatever is required to mount a SWG?

4) Housing – Does the SWG need a special cover/housing or will leaving it out all year round in Massachusetts be fine?

5) Bonding - Is water bonding at either the skimmer basket or pump drain sufficient? I see the plates with bond lugs available for both locations. Is it critical that a ground wire be installed around the pool perimeter?

6) Hard Plumb - Do I also need to hire a plumber to connect hard plumb all the PVC pipes? I assume that if I add a SWG then I’ll have to use PVC instead of flex hose. I have never worked with PVC before but it does appear to be something I may be able to handle on my own.

7) SWG Recommendation – pool is 24’ x 54” pool, approx. 14k – 15k gallons. Based on reading, looks like I should purchase a SWG rated for 30k+ gal. Any specific model recommendations? Seems like the Hayward system is very popular. Should I get a model that monitors salt? Do they all control pump on/off/speed? I will have a Pentair 1.5HP 2 speed.

8) Vacuum – I have been hearing that many ABG pool owners use robotic vacuums to clean their pool. Is it really worth investing in a robot for a 24’ round? I like the idea of reduced labor on me and reduce wear and tear on my Pentair cartridge since the robots have their own. Please provide any recommended models for my setup. I have a friend who has the Dolphin Nautilus Plus for his IG and is extremely happy with it.

9) Other – Anything else I should be thinking about to get ready for the install?

Thanks so much!!

 

[kimkats]

Since you have so many "who does what" questions I am going to PM someone who may know. Hold on a bit until they get back with us.

 

[CJadamec]

1) Test kit, I believe you will need a couple of additional tests for your new pool such as chlorine reagents and a CYA test setup. Not sure if you need a full new test kit but not sure if going price by piece will be cost effective vs. just buying a kit.

2) I agree no main drain. They aren't needed in above ground pools. Also they are just a huge liability for leaks. Any electrician should be able to wire a SWG they are very simple to set up.

3) Talk to your electrician and discuss you plans and equipment needs. They will be able to plan their installation according to what you plan to install.

4) The SWG equipment will be fine outdoors thru the winter. Most SWG cells are easily removable if you wish to store it indoors for the winter. The cell should be drained completely so it is not damaged by water freezing inside of it.

5) Bonding, yes the wire around the pool is critical to the bonding system. By code the water bonding lug should be in the skimmer or in the plumbing just under the skimmer before any valves. This keeps the water bonded even if the pump is valved out for service.

6) PVC is pretty easy to work with. You can get away with doing your set up with flex hose even with a SWG but a hard piped system will be more trouble free in the long run. It could be a next year project. Something to do when you open the pool in the spring.

7) You got it right a 30k+ cell is what we recommend for your pool. No stand alone salt system will control your pump. You will need a pump timer to turn your pump on and off automatically. A 2-speed timer will also control pump speed if you want it. More than likely you will only need low speed on that pump for everything except vacuuming the pool. Leaving your hi and low speed selection to just a simply toggle switch should be fine.
Your SWG will be wired into your pump timer so they turn off and on at the same time.

8) I have wanted a robot since I got my pool. It will probably be a pool cover Jr when I do get one. For now I use the creepy crawly shark cleaner. It works ok but there is much left to be desired with it.

9) A solar cover and cover reel are worth the investment to make your pool warmer and help keep it cleaner. Also you will want a winter cover soon as our pool season typically ends in September for un-heated pools.

 

[TSpa]

Thank you for the excellent reply.

1) I just ordered the TF-100 kit and K-1766 kit. QUESTION CLOSED.

2&3) Spoke with electrician, said he has wired up many SWG before. Said I need to purchase the skimmer or pump drain water bonding, and for mounting purchase two 4”x4”x4’ posts, two 8’ deck boards and he would mount the system and outlets. QUESTION CLOSED.

4) Good to know I can leave it out and don’t need special housing. QUESTION CLOSED.

5) Electrician said he will install a #8 bare copper wire around perimeter and connect it to 4 pints of the bottom steel track and connect at pump. He said that wire around perimeter does not need to be buried. Will lay it on the ground and then later I can cover it with crushed stone that I will put around the pool. QUESTION CLOSED.

6) Good to know I can do everything now with flex hose now, even with the SWG. If I don’t get around to hard plumbing it this season then I will do it sometime next year. QUESTION CLOSED.

7) The electrician did mention he needs to run a wire specifically for the SWG hot leg to the pool timer at my breaker panel.

Right now Amazon is selling the Hayward AQR9 (25k gal) for $740 and the AQR15 (40k gal) for $880. Should I spend the extra $140 and get the 40k gal system? If it’s likely to last longer and require my pump to be on less compared to the 25k gal system then maybe it’s worth it?

8) I ended up buying the Poolmaster 27400 vacuum for $15. I figured I would do it the old fashion way for a bit to see how it goes. Please let me know if you think I should upgrade to something else right away if the Poolmaster is not a decent choice. I tried searching for the “pool cover Jr” you mentioned but could not find any info on it.

9) I purchased a 12x12 scrim winter pool cover that comes with a wire and winch to tighten down the wire. I did purchase a solar cover but have only started to research cover reels. I do not see any obvious solutions for above ground 34’ round pools. Can you provide any recommendations/advice?

10) Is it worth putting down some kind of ant killer before the liner is installed, such as DE? I know some people like to put down a gorilla pad but seems like those systems have mixed reviews. I was looking into putting down a nut sedge preventer but the products out now are only effective post emergent.

11) May buy a sacrificial anode zinc bar from local marine store and connect it to the bonding wire and bury it somewhere close to the wall/pump bonding connection. May not be very effective at preventing corrosion at the steel wall/track but figured it would not cost much so not much lost if it does not do much.

Thank for all the great support!

 

[CJadamec]

The 40k SWG is worth the extra cost. Also check out discount salt pool, they sell SWG's at decent prices.

Any vacuum is fine for now and everyone still needs a manual vac every now and again. Sorry that was a typo you are looking for "pool Rover Jr".

Cover reels for larger round above ground pools get tricky at times because they are so wide. I prefer to mount the reel on 4x4 posts outside the pool it's a good way to keep the cover out of the way.

I would use a regular insect spray from your local home improvement store to treat the area before the pool goes in. Treat around the pool once or twice a season to keep them at bay.

I don't see much benefit in the gorilla pad but some people seem to really like them. Your choice on that one.

A zinc annode is useless for pools. Don't waste your time effort or money on one.

 

[kimkats]

Make sure to fix the area under the skimmer and return for if/when the pool gets overfull or a hose pops loose.

What I did was:

-dig down 3 inches by the skimmer and return. Make sure to go out more than enough for water splash.

-Fill the hole with gravel

-cover the gravel with some stepping stones making sure to have a light slope to move the water away from the pool.

Make sure they put valves just under the return and skimmer so you can close it when you need to do any kind of work or maintenance on the equipment.

Also have unions on either side of all equipment so you do not have to cut pipe or hoses.

Kim

 

[techguy]

Based on my 10 years of a 21 Round

I have stuck with the flex hoses. I have two flex hoses, one from the skimmer to pump inlet and another from the filter exit to the pools return fitting. I have no valves and don't really miss them. When its time to separate the filter from the the pool, I add one section of the AquaBug hose to my skimmer and let the other end hang over the side (in the air), I remove the hose from the bottom of the skimmer frame, I move the hose end from the filter exit to the skimmer base and trap the water in the pool as it is now connected from the skimmer to the return fitting. Now the pump and filter assembly are not connected to the pool and all I have lost in water is what was in the hoses that spilled. It takes longer to type this than actually do it. I have a single piece Hayward pump/DE filter that have a bull nose connector between them. I replace the hoses every 3-5 years.

I keep buying covers but never use them. It's hot and dry here and the water heats up just fine without a cover.

For the vacuum, I love my Hayward Aquabug. I had a red bug before and now yellow Diver Dan?

I added a PoolSkim as it's the best for collecting the Crepe Myrtle blooms that float across the surface. For me, it's a requirement. I can clean the entire water surface in about 30 minutes of the crepes that take forever to sink. My wall skimmer will NOT get the crepe... ever.

 

[TSpa]

I’ll order the 40k Hayward Goldline AQR15. It seems like people have good luck with Morton pool salt so I’ll pick up 11 bags of that from my local Wal-Mart.

Thanks for the recommendations on the pool Rover Jr and Aquabug. I think for the short term we’ll do manual only and then switch to something else down the road. Is it necessary to vacuum the walls? Do you use the same vacuum as the manual floor attachment that I already purchased or do I need something else?

Unfortunately I already ordered the solar cover and am regretting it now. I’ll look into installing posts to mount a reel. I likely won’t take it out of the box until I get a reel system in place. Either that or I’ll sell it on Craigslist!

Thanks for the idea to prep the ground in front of the skimmer/return. Isn’t that usually where the pump/filter is located? How big of an area should be dug out 3” deep and filled with crushed stone? It seems like you are talking about a small area for splashing. Is the purpose of this to prevent erosion of the sand under the wall where the skimmer/return is located?

I already purchased Hayward shutoff valves for the skimmer and return based on reading other threads.

If I eventually hard plumb I’ll be sure to put unions in to make removal of pipes and equipment easier.

Techguy, good idea about how to avoid the need for shutoffs. Connecting the hose that normally connects to the return instead to the skimmer is a good idea and not much water loss. I looked up the PoolSkim and it looks like a very effective skimmer. My pool is coming with the Hayward widemouth skimmer. Did the PoolSkim come with everything you needed to connect to your above ground pool skimmer? Do you take it out when you are swimming? Looks like the kids would bump into it easily. My father just told me today that his 24’ round just collapsed because a teenager in the pool pushed off the wall/return and ended up pushing the return out. The water gushed out for a bit then split the wall in half. The pool was 20 years old and in great shape, no rust. I would be afraid with the PoolSkim that someone is going to bump it and it could lead to serious issues.

Thanks all!

 

[kimkats]

My equipment sits out from the pool a little bit so there is plenty of room for the stepping stones. The steppers I used are the 12"x12" ones. The idea is to protect the pool wall/base from wash out just like you say. For splash out, rain overfilling the skimmer, hose popping off, etc.

Kim

 

[TSpa]

Hey all, Pool install has been delayed. I just got off the phone with the pump tech support. The 1.5HP 2 speed optiflo pump I bought at high speed runs at 3450 RPM and at low speed runs at half speed, 1725 RPM. He said the AQR15 flow switch requires 15 gpm flow in order to operate. He is concerned that at low speed (1725 RPM) the salt cell will give me the low flow error. I will have 1.5" flex hose lines from the skimmer/return. Does anyone else have a similar setup with the AQR15 and low speed 1.5HP pump? Should I be concerned? He suggested I switch to the 1.5HP superflo variable speed model or just run my pump at high speed all the time.

Thank you!

 

[CJadamec]

Honestly based on the full flow pump curve they list for that pump at low speed with simple system like yours that pump should he able to run your SWG on low speed. At least that's my opinion.

The superflo VS a very nice pump but it's a huge step up in price. It would certainly work and be cheap to operate eletricaly but at double to triple the cost up front for the pump.

Who's tech support was it that was telling you that?

 

[TSpa]

CJadamec, it was Pentair support. Keeping my fingers crossed it will work with current pump on hand. Thank you.

 

[techguy]

As suggested, low speed may provide enough flow. Another option is to run on high when you need to run the SWG and use low any other time.

As to the PoolSkim, it does require some fiddling to get it setup as the fittings are metric. The adapters were included for a standard install. I have added a wood stake to hold the skim body level. If the wood is not there, the skimmer body pulls itself up to the water surface. The top section of the skimmer floats near the surface creating a vortex and it draws in the surface debris (leaves, flowers, bugs...) and it deposits the debris in a filter bag below water level. It lives in the pool and skims all the debris (not stuck to hoses/floats/toys into the filter bag within 20-30 minutes. It is pretty small and not in the way. I have not had any incidents with it.

My wall skimmer, a Hayward wide mouth, does not suck down ANY of the crepe blooms. They just skim across the surface for days until they sink, in about a week. They are immune to the water flow if the wide mouth and subject to the wide mouth. The PoolSkim creates a strong surface current and sucks them right in.